Identifying the type of 2nd serve (kick, slice, etc)

[marius hancu]

I know that this might be difficult (because of viewing angle, combination of spins, etc), but at least in such cases when you can identify the type of the 2nd serve (kick/slice, etc) it would be useful to viewers to have it mentioned in the title of the clip.

[johnyandell]

No such thing as topspin, no such thing as slice

We need to redefine the spin terminology on the serve, and that's something I'll be addressing in our heavy ball section over the next few months. What our high speed filming of spin shows is there is no such thing as a "topspin" serve, and usually no such thing as a "slice" either. The old idea of hitting from 6 to 12 or 7 to 1, or 9 to 3 or whatever may have coaching value, but the reality is that virtually every serve in pro tennis we have filmed is a mix of sidespin and topspin.

AND mostly sidespin. So far we have done one detailed comparison--Sampras and Greg Rusedski. For Pete, the steepest ball was spinning from about 8 to 2, or a little steeper. And most were spining closer to the horizontal axis. Rusedski hit a few serves that were almost pure sidespin, but all his balls still had at least some topspin component. If you really look at the angle of the racket head at contact in the videos this will start to make sense to you. The women tend to serve with much less topspin and so the racket is closer to vertical at contact.

The main factor in all this is ball position, left to right. The more to the left, the more angled the racket tends to be at contact. So it's a matter of degrees--but we just need to understand this all better. And we will. We are now doing a similar comparison between Roddick and Federer.

[marius hancu]

that virtually every serve in pro tennis we have filmed is a mix of sidespin and topspin.

AND mostly sidespin. So far we have done one detailed comparison--Sampras and Greg Rusedski. For Pete, the steepest ball was spinning from about 8 to 2, or a little steeper.

I agree about the mix. The only issue is how to make it reproducible by others, at least to some extent, teachable and visible.

Is this Pete - Greg comparison already on at the site?
Sorry, so much to absorb.

[johnyandell]

Pete/Greg

No not on the site. I've presented it at a few conferences. It's slated for later this year in Heavy Ball section.
I agree it comes down to a practical thing. One open question is when is topspin a weapon that adds weight to the serve, and when does it simply slow the ball and cause it to sit up. For every server, surface, level of play, there are probably boundaries. Pete could still hit 120mph with a heavy topspin element.

[vmiller]

So far we have done one detailed comparison--Sampras and Greg Rusedski.
...
It's slated for later this year in Heavy Ball section.
...
We are now doing a similar comparison between Roddick and Federer.

Good stuff, looking forward to it!

In the mean time, I'm having fun working on the 'left launch'. Who knows if I'm even close to doing it, but I feel like I'm hitting a heavier and more reliable serve. We'll see how close I am when the weather gets warm and I can video tape.