Interactive Forum March 2023 Cam Norrie Forehand

[johnyandell]

Interactive Forum March 2023 Cam Norrie Forehand

Cam Norrie just beat Carlos Alcaraz and is a legit top 10 player and maybe a lot higher. Here’s his forehand. It’s a substantial piece of video. I kept trying to edit it down but I saw something great in almost every shot so…

He’s got a high backswing with that mysterious downward wrist flexion. His hitting arm seems straight or close. Every stance and court position!

What do you guys see?

[stroke]

Well it is obviously a great forehand. When I have occasionally seen spin rates on his forehand, he is right up there with the highest spin rate forehands out there. He does prepare with a neutral/flat wrist, it appears to me, and of course his wrist naturally extends when he goes through his racquet lag going into contact. As John has pointed out, so many of these players today seem to initially set up on the forehand with a neutral, or even a wrist flexion/bent down position, instead of the classic initial set up extended wrist used by Fed, Nadal, Novak, and many others. But maybe the bottom line is they all go to a neutral wrist, just prior to the move to contact, then extend the wrist as the hitting hand moves to contact. This passive wrist extension, of course, creates the lag of at least 90 degrees(between the forearm and racquet shaft).

[seano]

Norrie has obviously had very impressive results. I was at the Miami Open last year, wanting to watch Norrie play. Interesting forehand but not as dynamic as I was expecting. I wonder what his speed to spin ratios are. He really pulls off the ball quickly after contact, creating spin, but limiting speed. I’d like to see more dynamic synergy with his left leg driving and left arm extending. Bend the left knee more in preparation, allow the left foot to kick back in the follow-through. Work the back foot as a counter-balance allowing for more left leg/left arm separation. Have the sole of his left foot point towards the back fence, as the arm extends through the shot. Most times the sole of his left shoe is still facing the ground as he completes his follow-through. Signs of weak left leg use, limiting independent arm motion.

[jimlosaltos]

Well it is obviously a great forehand. When I have occasionally seen spin rates on his forehand, he is right up there with the highest spin rate forehands out there. He does prepare with a neutral/flat wrist, it appears to me, and of course his wrist naturally extends when he goes through his racquet lag going into contact. As John has pointed out, so many of these players today seem to initially set up on the forehand with a neutral, or even a wrist flexion/bent down position, instead of the classic initial set up extended wrist used by Fed, Nadal, Novak, and many others. But maybe the bottom line is they all go to a neutral wrist, just prior to the move to contact, then extend the wrist as the hitting hand moves to contact. This passive wrist extension, of course, creates the lag of at least 90 degrees(between the forearm and racquet shaft).

Interesting. I pulled a few stats from his Australian Open 5 setter with JL here:
https://ausopen.com/match/2023-camer...307#!infosys-3

Here's a forehand passing shot at 117 MPH/ 2,913 RPM -- so he can get the mphs when he wants to. { Let's assume that even if the Hawkeye/Infosystem MPHs are overstated they are consistently so across different players}.

A backhand winner I looked at, by contrast, was 867 RPMs, another 1,000 RPMs -- so about as flat as you see off the ground on the ATP.

filedata/fetch?id=99919&d=1677786560&type=thumb

[jeffreycounts]

When I have occasionally seen spin rates on his forehand, he is right up there with the highest spin rate forehands out there.).

That would explain his success on clay. I couldn't believe Cam, a British player, could win a 500 clay court tournament in South America. But clearly he's got the groundstrokes for it. I love his forehand, but his backhand is flat out weird. I don't know how he can win with that shot, but maybe his serve and forehand make up for it.

I also think the flexed wrist position really helps these players with their timing. You can see how keeping it down helps them wait until just the right moment to pull forward and get the wrist to flex backwards. It's like the left arm stretch. You hold it until the moment is right to uncoil. Not too late. But not too early either.

[jeffreycounts]

A backhand winner I looked at, by contrast, was 867 RPMs, another 1,000 RPMs -- so about as flat as you see off the ground on the ATP.

His backhand is just so weird. A little like Kyrgios. Hardly any backswing. Not suprrised at the super flat rpms. Very interesting stat though!

[seano]

Jeffrey -
Totally agree about the weird backhand. Cant see how it's not exploited more. I assume John will post the backhand for discussion in the next 2 months.Will be interesting posts about it.

[jeremy93]

Interesting that he doesn’t have one reverse finish.

[stroke]

Jeffrey -
Totally agree about the weird backhand. Cant see how it's not exploited more. I assume John will post the backhand for discussion in the next 2 months.Will be interesting posts about it.

I was just talking about his backhand in another thread. I do think his backhand is awkward looking, but it appears very solid. Cam, like Nick, just uses this very short takeback shovel type technique very well. It has very little spin, but it is very reliable. It appears to me Cam makes no real effort to run around it to hit forehands. He is very good a redirecting pace and taking the ball on early with it, just like Nick.

[stotty]

Interesting comments by seano.

I think his forehand is very good but there are others out there that are better. I think being left-handed plays a significant role in it's success.

I think Norrie's mindset is better than most. He's as fit as a fiddle and has huge self belief. In a game where all the top 30 players are amazing, the mindset of the players has to play a very significant part.

God knows how Norrie gets away with that backhand: a short backswing with pretty much a straight/straight configuration (my least favourite configuration) and minimal drop of the racket head...literally a bunt. I can see the advantages of it in that it makes the shot stable and absorbs pace quite well. The problem comes when hitting a dead ball because it's tough to create something out of nothing.

I guess in one sense his backhand is a more interesting study than his forehand.

[jimlosaltos]

Interesting that he doesn’t have one reverse finish.

Good catch. You inspired me to go through my fairly large set of images of Norrie and I couldn't find a single reverse forehand even in the reject photos. Not remotely scientific, but a a pretty large set.

Here's about the closest I could find. Here, Cam is pulled wide and recovering off his outside foot, a situation where many ATP players would follow through high, and he instead pulls up on the shot instead of extending (as he often does). I wonder if part of that is his lefty practice at getting the ball wide to backhands so often?

Maybe?

filedata/fetch?id=99988&d=1678127499&type=thumb

[chuahman]

It seems like the bh has captured more interest. Obviously technical not recommended to teach however the way I view is it's different for his opponents in terms of speed, spin and more importantly height as out of the strike zone for most! Guess with talent you can use a conty grip on the top hand. Interestingly, up to the developing player as while coaching my student I could never change the top hand. He did result in having a bh that he was comfortable with!

[johnyandell]

We will eventually have video of his backhand!