Interactive Forum February 2023 Holger Rune Serve

[johnyandell]

Interactive Forum February 2023 Holger Rune Serve

Holger is in the top 10 now and his serve is one of the reasons. I like his platform stance, the timing of his racket entry into the backswing—thanks Brian Gordon—and his extension and hand and arm rotation—at least on most serves. In this footage I had a hard time telling first from second serves. Did I get most of them right, or?

What else do you guys see?

[jimlosaltos]

Watching Rune at the Australian Open I was surprised by two things.

First, I knew his second serve was quick, but I didn't realize how flat he hits the 2nd. Doesn't seem to miss a high amount, though.

Second, I had earlier thought his first serve was pretty effective, particularly from Paris, which he won. But at the AO, Rublev was just brutalizing it. Taking big, forehand cuts and hitting them almost on the baseline. Picked up a bit later.

[stotty]

Not too much to dislike. One thing I am not too keen on are serves where the racket head points up throughout the early part of the wind-up, which Rune's pretty quickly does. Not quite so extreme as Alcaraz but not far off. I prefer the opposite, where the racket head points more towards the ground in the early part of the wind-up...rather like Roger. I like the racket head to 'trail' somewhat. It's a small detail but as a coach it's something I prefer.

[don_budge]

Interactive Forum February 2023 Holger Rune Serve

Holger is in the top 10 now and his serve is one of the reasons. I like his platform stance, the timing of his racket entry into the backswing—thanks Brian Gordon—and his extension and hand and arm rotation—at least on most serves. In this footage I had a hard time telling first from second serves. Did I get most of them right, or?

What else do you guys see?

Per ususal...this is a very ugly motion. Modern serves lack in any sort of elegance or aesthetically pleasing form. When a serve is lacking in this sort of frictionless motion there is sure to be lacking in the subtleties of the "game of serving". But of course he generates a lot of power...or rather speed. But he leaves a lot on the table in terms of real power...the combination of speed, spin and placement. There isn't a single player on the circuit now that has the sort of serving game that I find to be aesthetic. Roger Federer was the last of the subtle servers. The kind of server who wins his service games in under a minute without relying on speed alone. I don't like this service motion one little bit starting from his setup position. He leaves way too much potential on the table.

If I remember correctly his serve sort of let him down late in the match against Rublev in the Australian Open.

[captain771]

Yes to Holger. But PLEASE ALYCIA PARKS! I’m breathless over her serve! Mary Williams (Captain 771)

[johnyandell]

Good suggestion. Will try.

[a2bruno]

If I’m not mistaken, Holger’s new serve motion is the product of coaching by Patrick Moratoglou. I recently watched several youtube videos of Holger receiving instruction from Patrick and the motion looks very similar. One difference I see is Patrick was coaching to toss the ball more in front toward the target than this video shows.

[seano]

Here's a Youtube video of Alycia Parks working on her serve with Rick Macci, as a 10 year old. Basic instruction but interesting to see how her present serve still has the fundamentals. 2 points - 1) power position - the racquet head should be pointing straight up, not starting to drop behind the head. 2) motion doesn't need to be continuous, let the leg drive initiate the racquet drop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-gpfh_vV9A

[jschaff]

Actually I see Rune's serve differently that most here. I see it as close to Sampras' serve where the racket path completes early and quickly through the ball. The compression/decompression of the ball happens so quickly that there is maximum control. There is not much nuance here, as in Federer's serve, likely because he is still so young and get a big adrenal thrill with every serve. That is what being a kid is all about. But his efficiency in motion is supreme at his age on all of his strokes. His forehand and serve may look like high energy shots, but really they are just very efficient energy transfer shots.

Holger's supreme confidence and superior shot making at his age is responsible for his rocketing in the rankings. And he could be there for another 15 years easily.

[chux10sed]

Does he ever throw a "change-up" on his first serve? Very few pro's do this, it seems to me. Like a drop shot, a slow-speed serve on the first ball can be very effective, when done sparingly and with disguise.

[johnyandell]

Worked for me! Not sure I've seen it on tour!

[jimlosaltos]

Worked for me! Not sure I've seen it on tour!

An example that came to mind was watching Nick Kyrgios dismantle Djokovic at Indian Wells (after beating him weeks earlier in Acapulco). Had Novak completely flummoxed on return.

Nick hit a 120 MPH second serve, then an 86 MPH kick first serve. Both left Djokovic motionless -- until he pivoted to scream at his box, of course.

I'd say some of Fed's first serves, when he slows down his wide slice to the deuce court, could be in the category of "change ups". ~90 MPH short and wide.

I also have a very vague memory of a doubles match where an unknown player was hitting some 60 MPH first serves that John McEnroe couldn't do anything with ... sorry, that's all I recall there.

[stroke]

An example that came to mind was watching Nick Kyrgios dismantle Djokovic at Indian Wells (after beating him weeks earlier in Acapulco). Had Novak completely flummoxed on return.

Nick hit a 120 MPH second serve, then an 86 MPH kick first serve. Both left Djokovic motionless -- until he pivoted to scream at his box, of course.

I'd say some of Fed's first serves, when he slows down his wide slice to the deuce court, could be in the category of "change ups". ~90 MPH short and wide.

I also have a very vague memory of a doubles match where an unknown player was hitting some 60 MPH first serves that John McEnroe couldn't do anything with ... sorry, that's all I recall there.

I remember that. We all know how good Nick's 1st and 2nd serve can be. Stand alone good really, up there with the best serves ever. Such a waste of talent.

[stroke]

I really like Runes service motion. Very explosive for a not tall player. His technique is just very good on all his shots, and it is important to him. It looks kinda like the BG endorsed ""probation" serve to me.

[chuahman]

Hey all, interesting observations, of note is comment re first and second serve. Is the racquet drop more away from his body and I see quite a deep drop. Trying to line up side by side with Rf then it will provide an invaluable comparison. Correct as did see you tube with Pat providing instruction. No shadowing and visualisation before executing change!!