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I finally took some video of groundstrokes yesterday. Quality is not great because of indoor lighting, but you can see what's going on. There's just one backhand followed by one forehand (they're all pretty much the same). It's at 240fps at 1/8th speed from an iPhone using Hudl app (no longer available). Posted it because everyone likes picking apart strokes don't they? Any comments welcomed.
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Since it's above my pay grade to tell others how to hit their shots, I'll just say I appreciate the way you recover immediately and your footwork.
Good stuff <g>.
Happy Holidays. -
GG,
I think you look very smooth and accomplished! On the forehand I think you could stretch your left arm further. Maybe more outward extension. Also I notice your closed stance and wonder if that's the norm? On the backhand your left arm could oppose more. I notice you are bent over at the waist but that's probably because of the low ball?Comment
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jimlosaltos - thanks for breaking the ice, and the kind words about footwork - it's funny seeing your own footwork on video, it's like watching someone else. I can only keep that up for about 2 hrs before tiring!
JY - as always, you're onto something. On the backhand, I do sometimes think more about opposition from the left side, and the shot becomes a lot better, plus it's more likely to stay in the court and not get dragged wide. However it seems to take a mental effort for me to do it - it's not automatic, and if I'm rushed for time it definitely doesn't happen. I shall try harder! On the forehand, it's almost a similar situation - if I think about getting a good coil there is more left arm extension, and more initial hip leading the swing, but when rushed it doesn't happen. My initial reaction on seeing the video was that my right arm doesn't extend forward in the line of the shot as much as I thought it would, looks more across the body - I think that's what you mean by "outward extension"? I do hit open stance forehands, but never open stance backhands.
On the forehand, I sometimes worry that I'm getting a negative impact from the osmosis effect. I'm an old-fashioned player from the 80s, but having watched so much Federer, and having read so many great articles on TennisPlayer about ATP forehands, I think my classical forehand has slightly changed without my consent.
Thanks for the encouragement. I hadn't videoed groundstrokes for decades, and I have to say it is an eye-opener. I will get on the court and try to incorporate your comments. Maybe in a week or two, I'll video again.Comment
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Sounds good--and yeah that's what I mean about forward extension. Classical forehands are great btw...Comment
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Overall I am favourably impressed. Not easy to gauge anything substantial from seeing just two shots. Tend to agree with John about the slight tipping effect on the backhand. Normally one might take that forehand with an a more open stance as the hips seem to be acting as block in preventing smoother rotation through the shot. As already mentioned, the left arm stretch could be more pronounced and outward extension a little better. Generally, with classic forehands, extension tends to be easier to achieve...versus the junior players who use a wiper and often cut the extension off too early. But both shots look great...with just minor problems that are very curable.
Thanks so much for posting. That's very brave of you.StottyComment
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Thanks stotty! It is a bit daunting posting video here. I'm seeing that dip on the backhand now, that both you and JY see. And I'm definitely taking onboard the left arm stretch and more extension through the line of the shot on the forehand.
I shall work on your observations and try videoing again (in a week or two) with perhaps a selection of closed and open stance forehands and maybe some different height balls on the backhand. Because human nature being what it is, the shots I posted are the good ones. I can be a lot worse than that.Comment
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Something about frame 40.80 makes you overlean at the waist at frame 41.32 on the backhand and something at 43.77 might be contributing to lack of extension at 44.16 on the forehand( assuming that we are seeing the same frames at those numbers). I guess this is where John's pro model to client side by side analysis indicates cause and effect of inclusion, absence or modification of key checkpoints. I would hesitate to comment with any confidence without side by side video analysis.
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Thanks doctorhl. I appreciate your comments. We will be seeing the same time stamps for the same images - the YouTube video is a QuickTime screen recording of me playing back at 1/8th speed in the Hudl app on my phone. I need to check whether I'm overleaning/dipping on the backhand for every shot. And I would love to work out why I'm not extending more on the forehand. I'm hoping that some open stance video might shed some light.
I might try to use the side-by-side analysis and screen grab the result - that would be interesting.
I think posting this short video might be the best thing I've done for my tennis in a long time. Thank you all.Last edited by glacierguy; 12-08-2022, 11:02 AM.Comment
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Here are some more shots from the same session, but this time at half speed so you can see a few strokes.
My forehand grip is continental. And my backhand grip is rotated slightly to top of grip, maybe a 1/1.5.
Last edited by glacierguy; 12-09-2022, 03:16 AM.Comment
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On this video, scroll to around 66. Place your finger on the red dot and roll it slightly to the right, back and forth. Your are trying to toggle back from loading at 66.0 and contact at 66.6( having a wheel or mouse that toggles one frame at a time is helpful). Go to John's archives and try to find the same frames for Del Potro or Federer on neutral stances with their forehand. Many players have the racket tip pointed a little more forward ( higher elbow as a result) which will give a little more flip. They also seem to have a wider stance which allows a rotational swing with less forward weight shift. The narrow stance seems to be focused on a larger forward weight shift for a more linear swing. I am not sure if the footwork to setup to load for a rotational swing, but I sure gained some power on both the fh and bh when I made the switch. Your stroke is so nice, only a small tweak. The best thing is to use John's process of side by side video comparison and reinforcement with visual and kinesthetic imaging.
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From a technical standpoint I much prefer the backhand to the forehand. The backhand has a wider base with the feet and a decent shoulder turn, which engages the body well, and the racket gets under the ball pretty well too. The forehand by contrast seems to have a narrow base and looks slightly cramped on contact. The problem with a continental grip is it dooms the player to a flipless forehand as the racket goes back on edge and returns back on edge right through contact.
I use a continental grip and learned to take the ball early to resolve sum of the shots limitations. The grip is hopeless however for dispatching mid-court balls with any kind of aplomb.StottyComment
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Thanks stotty, you have clearly "been there, done that". I had to laugh at your final sentence - my main problem is putting away mid-court balls on the forehand. It's extremely frustrating to get on top in the rally, force a weak return, and then fail to put it away. Drives me nuts.Originally posted by stotty View Post
Since I'm not up for changing grip, I will endeavour to: get more left arm extension and coil, lower wider base, contact more in front with better hitting arm extension through line of shot. By tomorrow. Which is when I think I'll video again.
I'm glad you quite like my backhand, it always used to be my better shot, but has taken longer to reappear after my layoff.Comment
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Well, I'm not sure I delivered, but here are some more forehands from yesterday. There are three YouTubes: rally in real time; rally at half speed; the shot which I think I should be aiming for at 1/8th speed.
Real time:
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