Decomposing A Serve & Volley Point: Tsitsipas vs Medvedev

[jimlosaltos]

No great insight or highlights here. I occasionally like to dissect pros' patterns of play partially for my understanding but also because I'm a visual learner. If I look at the detail closely enough, some of it might -- might -- just stick <g>.

Any way, since many of us here mourn the near-death of serve & volley, here's a closer look at one of the rare birds in full flight.

One reason the Tsitsipas - Medvedev match was fun to watch was the contrast in styles. Finally, someone went after Medvedev's deep return position by hitting tons of wide, slice serves in the deuce court and following many of them to the net. Not easy given The Octopus' groundstrokes and movement.

Let's break this point down. Starts with both players in the air at the same time. By the second set, Medvedev was setting up in line with the doubles alley to cut off Stef's wide ones. Here, you see Medvedev airborne on his split serve as the ball comes off the racket. From the angle and blur we can see how sharply Stef snapped his arm across the top-right corner of the ball, toward the netpost. It's maybe 115 mph at over 3,000 RPMs in the corner. Note the location of the line judge for reference in the next image.

Image 1 of 5, all cropped and editing from TennisTV's stream. https://www.tennistv.com


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Stef is two steps into the court as Daniil starts his swing from well outside the doubles alley. Unlike most ATP players, Medy does not move diagonally to cut off the wide serve, but counts on his hard returns and great recovery speed. Note the linesman's head peering over Daniil's.

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Here, both players are in the air at the same time again, Daniil leaping into the ball to rip a down-the-line shot, while Stef takes a split step hop, ready to lunge in either direction. Stef's at the T, not shading toward where the ball is being struck.

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Daniil swings so hard he's leaping up and to this right, slamming a flat forehand. His shoulders are above the linesman's head.

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His return is screaming down the line, as Daniil lands on his outside foot and immediately pivots to spring back. I'll guess it's a 90-100 mph forehand. Not good enough. With one big cross-over step Stef cuts off the pass with a thigh-high volley at the service line, putting the ball away. Tough to hit any of these three shots much better. Two great players that are fun to watch.


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[jimlosaltos]

By the way, this is from their round robin match in the Turin ATP World Tour Finals last week.

[jimlosaltos]

Andy Roddick & Jim Courier just on Tennis Channel discussing Tsitsipas vs Rublev in Turin.

Andy: "Tsitsipas looked like a future world number one in that first set"

Courier: "Tsitsipas threw away the third set with 2 double faults while his family was arguing. They need to work this out. They need counseling. Stef is a good guy. He doesn't want their midmatch coaching. But it's a distraction. They all want the same thing."

https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/rqWzXLgf

[doctorhl]

By the way, this is from their round robin match in the Turin ATP World Tour Finals last week.

I wonder how deep Stef's wide serves were landing? His athletic ability allowed him to close and cut off Daniil's returns with a Sephan Edberg look. Fed would have hit shallower wide serves and have less distance to travel for a cutoff volley. The shallow wide serve also would have forced a more forward retrieve and different type swing since there is no chance to pivot back for recovery. Both ways are effective. Here is a Federer ridiculous shallow, wide serve and cutoff volley to the deuce court ...and a forehand volley to boot!

https://youtube.com/shorts/_SAbQTn0a3E?feature=share

[jimlosaltos]

I wonder how deep Stef's wide serves were landing? His athletic ability allowed him to close and cut off Daniil's returns with a Sephan Edberg look. Fed would have hit shallower wide serves and have less distance to travel for a cutoff volley. The shallow wide serve also would have forced a more forward retrieve and different type swing since there is no chance to pivot back for recovery. Both ways are effective. Here is a Federer ridiculous shallow, wide serve and cutoff volley to the deuce court ...and a forehand volley to boot!

https://youtube.com/shorts/_SAbQTn0a3E?feature=share

Great question and example.

From memory only, Stef was not or rarely going for the shorter and wider slice, although he can hit that one, but a heavier "kick-slice" in the corner. Worked really well.
I share your admiration for Fed's short-wide ball.

My guess is that Stef's is a better model for those of us that lack the hops to make contact at 10 feet like Fed

Separately, I'm a bit surprised nobody took exception to Stef's court position. I thought one was supposed to move on a diagonal with the location of the passer, but I guess if one is 6 ft 4 in with long strides that cover the entire net, it's not necessary.

[stroke]

Andy Roddick & Jim Courier just on Tennis Channel discussing Tsitsipas vs Rublev in Turin.

Andy: "Tsitsipas looked like a future world number one in that first set"

Courier: "Tsitsipas threw away the third set with 2 double faults while his family was arguing. They need to work this out. They need counseling. Stef is a good guy. He doesn't want their midmatch coaching. But it's a distraction. They all want the same thing."

https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/rqWzXLgf

I agree with Courier completely regarding his box/coaching issues. I think Stef serves great, particularly with that service grip, which looks to me to be a very weak continental grip. Fed of course, like about everything else he did tennis wise, had the perfect service grip, a very strong continental grip, with the heel of his hand pretty much on bevel 1. That continental grip, which some would say leans toward the backhand type grip, to me just allows for so much more action on the ball. Stef's service grip to me is not even close to Fed's grip.