Coco's Forehand: Some Hamburger with Your Sushi

[arturohernandez]

I've been texting with Brad. They have done nothing technical. It's confidence building and tactics. Brad wanted more air and shape on the groundstrokes and that seems to have magically eliminated the technical problems on her forehand.

I think if there was someone they might consult is Carlos Rodriguez. He worked on Henin's forehand and serve using specific models.

Or Brad could call on Agassi. Agassi had a great forehand but it was not his best shot. I know everyone thinks he was balanced but I consider his backhand better than his forehand.

However, he was able to hit a great forehand anyway and I think it was in part because it was so simple.

Gauff's forehand seems long and complicated. Eventually, she will have to address the problem. Maybe Andre could help out. Another tactical person.

Oh and he is married to someone with a great forehand. Between the two of them they might lend some advice.

For now, it is great to see her advancing and playing better.

But the forehand still looks wonky and I am sure that Brad thinks they will have to address it sooner or later.

[jimlosaltos]

Interesting profile of Brad Gilbert from NYT's today.
Excerpt regarding some champs, Coco -- and Zendaya.

"Then there is this: Gilbert began working with Agassi in March 1994, and Agassi won the U.S. Open that September. Gilbert began working with Roddick in June 2003. Three months later, Roddick was the U.S. Open champion

They were different players. Agassi, Gilbert said, had a photographic memory and an analytical mind that could take apart a match hours later, stroke by stroke, with total recall. Roddick was so exuberant that Gilbert had roughly 15 seconds to deliver any message before his attention went elsewhere.

His take on Gauff? Kind of like Zendaya, he said.

Both were prodigies who began working on their craft and breaking through as young children. They’re around the same height, about 5 feet 10 inches. And Zendaya has the wingspan of someone closer to 6-4, he said. Great athletic physique. If only he had gotten to teach her tennis when she was younger.

They were texting the other day, on Zendaya’s 27th birthday. She told him she was watching and was all in on Gauff. He said he was, too. Just as he wanted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/02/sports/tennis/us-open-coco-gauff-brad-gilbert.html?smid=url-share

[jimlosaltos]

Coco in today's NYT:

"“Let’s be real, anybody who is watching me play knows what I need to work on,” Gauff said in Washington when asked whether there might be conflicts between Gilbert and Pere Riba, the coach she hired in June. “You know, they know, the fans know.”

And: "To Gauff, Gilbert’s coaching success had mostly happened before she was born, she said with a giggle during the Citi Open. That said, Gilbert did start with both Agassi and Roddick shortly before they each won the U.S. Open. And his tweaks to her strokes, making them slightly shorter and more controlled and reminding her at every turn of her supreme athleticism — no one covers a court like Gauff these days — began to show immediate results."

[jimlosaltos]

Cross posting this here.

"latest 2023 U.S. Open odds have Swiatek as the +200 betting favorite (risk $100 to win $200). Second-ranked Aryna Sabalenka is at +440, while sixth-ranked Cori Gauff is at +700."

To date, tennis has had less "prop" betting, so I can't share an over/under on Coco's forehand winners nor UFEs <g>.

Soon, we'll probably be able to post bets in our apps in real time, as in "Bet now on whether Isner's next service will be an ace. Bets close in 30 seconds." <g>

https://www.cbssports.com/tennis/new...20slam%20title.

[don_budge]

I've been texting with Brad. They have done nothing technical. It's confidence building and tactics. Brad wanted more air and shape on the groundstrokes and that seems to have magically eliminated the technical problems on her forehand.

Fascinating. This was my take when I first read about Brad Gilbert's involvement and perhaps the counter intuitive approach to this player. But my philosophy with players is you have to play with what you've got. My impression of Gilbert is that this guy is the quintessential corner man. A tactical coach. As a player he had the reputation of winning "ugly". Maybe he didn't have the prettiest strokes in the eye of some of the more casual "connoisseurs". But what is ugly about winning...period. No...Brad has the right approach to this game and it isn't one of first priority technique. It is all about the tactics and playing to the score. The mental side. There have been many great players who don't hit it with the conventional technique most pleasing to the eye but still manage to find a way to win. Jim Courier is a great example. There are too many to mention. I have really enjoyed the Coco results that have come after the initial collaboration. Fantastic stuff!

The guy is a corner man. He knows what his player can do. He has an eye for understanding the strengths and weaknesses of any given player based solely on his eye...his observations. He doesn't need a second opinion. Brad is a coach who earns his keep. His player is going to take the court with a game plan A, B and C. His player is going to understand what shot to play in given situations based on his opponent and the score in the match. I don't understand what a lot of these coaches do to earn their keep but I do know that Brad earns his based on his tactical acumen and his ability to motivate. Such an interesting story in a dull page in the book of tennis. Jeez...I wonder if at some point Brad will have her serving and volleying. This is an area of the women's game that should be mined and exploited. Coco has a pretty darn good service motion. Hmmm...

[don_budge]

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-aaron-krickstein/G016/K023

[don_budge]

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-ivan-lendl/g016/l018

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-boris-becker/G016/B028

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-andre-agassi/G016/A092

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-john-mcenroe/G016/M047

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-pete-sampras/G016/S402

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-johan-kriek/G016/K022

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/brad-gilbert-vs-jimmy-connors/G016/C044

[jimlosaltos]

I've been texting with Brad. They have done nothing technical. It's confidence building and tactics. Brad wanted more air and shape on the groundstrokes and that seems to have magically eliminated the technical problems on her forehand.

Awesome
Thanks for digging that out & sharing, John

P.S. If only fixing my game was so easy

[johnyandell]

I've been texting with Brad. They have done nothing technical. It's confidence building and tactics. Brad wanted more air and shape on the groundstrokes and that seems to have magically eliminated the technical problems on her forehand.

[jimlosaltos]

Coco beats Iga for first time then ascending Muchova for her first M1k level title.

Coco said about Iga win, "I didn't want to be like Monfils". Ouch !

Again, Coco looked stagnant. Career plateaued. Every opponent is targeting her forehand and everyone analyst is ridiculing it.

BG and Reba come on board and BANG -- instant winner. Without touching her forehand.

Somebody, please, please tell me what magic elixir BG/ Reba are using with Coco ! ! !

[jimlosaltos]

Clue number 999 in the mystery of "What impact does a coach have on a pro player & what do they do?"

Brad Gilbert joins Coco Gauff as uber coach along with Pere Reba. She instantly wins a title and beats top ranked player.

What did they work on? Her forehand? Nah.

“Everybody is trying to play the forehand -- I’m not going to sit here and act like it’s some secret,” Gauff said in Washington.

Enter Gilbert, who is making a number of adjustments to her game -- none of them involving the forehand.

“We haven’t changed anything with the forehand,” he said, laughing. “I never even say that word.

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3623241/revamping-a-star-how-brad-gilbert-is-aiming-to-shape-gauff-s-game

[jimlosaltos]

Tony Bennett past away today. What a singer and an amazing man.

R.I.P. Long life. Performed to the end.

I saw him live once. My old company bought a table at a Silicon Valley Charity Ball where he performed. We were well behind the large contingents from Intel, AMD and Sun. Memorable.

Not long afterwards, I looked over my shoulder from a restaurant table in NYC and saw Tony at the table behind us. I wanted to say hello, but he was so engrossed in talk with his dinner companion I couldn't bring myself to interrupt them. Opportunity passed.

[stotty]

That's discouraging to hear. Coco is such a great athlete and an endearing personality.

Seems to have made progress on her serve while regressing on her groundstrokes. Hope she can turn it around.

Still only 19 yo and number 8 in the world!

I get that. And number 8 in the world is great....I get that too. Unfortunately there have been many precocious talents who have ultimately been let down by flaws which are fundamental. Tennis starts with the grip after all. I guess the women's game is less dependent on the forehand being excellent than the men's game, which might help her cause. In the men's game you'd have a slam-less career with a poor forehand.

Be interesting to see if some coach can do something about her forehand.

Tony Bennett past away today. What a singer and an amazing man.

[jimlosaltos]

Extreme western grips are rarely a good idea. Some players get away with an extreme western grips, but not many. The difficult thing for coaches is there will always be the odd world-class player out there that has an extreme grip or unusual technique, and developing players, even coaches, will site such examples to justify their own extreme technique. Very important coaches have good answers for students trying to justify extreme grips.

As I said somewhere else, maybe on this thread, making a poor forehand once it's established into a good forehand is nigh on impossible and I am sceptical any coach is going to be able to do it.

That's discouraging to hear. Coco is such a great athlete and an endearing personality.

Seems to have made progress on her serve while regressing on her groundstrokes. Hope she can turn it around.

Still only 19 yo and number 8 in the world!

[doctorhl]

The best shot artists( like Fed), know the strength and weaknesses of each grip, which situations to use them, and can change them with one hand when needed. There is a great risk in artistry if used inappropriately and the pressure of today's game does not allow much room for developing player exploration, grips included. Nastase and Kyrios are pointed out as negative examples of artistry unharnessed. Without them, however, we would never have witnessed a McEnroe or Federer.