What the Great Players Don't Know

[johnyandell]

Let's discuss Kyle LaCroix's article, "What the Great Players Don't Know"

[jeremy93]

Very interested. As a coach I have had these theories for some time. Excellent article.

[arturohernandez]

Great article. I have met great coaches that were decent players but excellent communicators. I also think your article applies to math teachers. Some great math doers are not great teachers. They just get math which is not helpful for those who don't.

I am really curious whether being really good at something takes on a kind of "unconscious" nature. Once you experience this "unconsciously" it becomes hard to do it more "consciously."

Thanks for all the valuable information!

[ten1050]

Great article. I have met great coaches that were decent players but excellent communicators. I also think your article applies to math teachers. Some great math doers are not great teachers. They just get math which is not helpful for those who don't.

I am really curious whether being really good at something takes on a kind of "unconscious" nature. Once you experience this "unconsciously" it becomes hard to do it more "consciously."

Thanks for all the valuable information!

Hello,
This statement that being really good at something takes on a kind of “unconscious” nature is what scientists refer to as the flow state. We experience this when we drive our car to a familiar destination. We are on automatic pilot as we navigate our way through traffic with very little thought or memory of the experience. The flow state is commonly referred to as being in the “zone.” Elite athletes experience the flow state whenever they engage in their field of expertise. To ask an elite athlete to explain his movements is much like asking an experienced driver to accurately describe his movements as he drove home.

Norman Ashbrooke

[johnyandell]

True. But then he has to teach!

[doctorhl]

Kyle: Your article is vey perceptive and touches on that “ dirty little secret” of many “name” club pros and conference headliners. As a kinesiology professor who taught aspiring coaches for many years, I witnessed the player performance/ teaching ability gap which you talk about. I can only imagine that the gap was magnified at your elite level. I noticed this gap developing with player/ coaches starting early in their careers. I also observed the “ unconscious/ conscious movement self-analysis gap between average and elite players that Arturo and ten1050 discussed. Team sport player/coaches seemed to suffer from these gaps a little less than player/ coaches of individual sports. I always felt that there were were forces at work fighting against true sport coaching certification in the U.S., which is behind other countries. But....that is another story. Perhaps SETS Consulting will be the point of the spear in tennis!

[10splayer]

Hopefully it's not because I always really liked and appreciated Kyle, but I found this article so very true..I actually found it amazing how little many great tennis player know about the game..forget the ability to actually teach it. Good to hear Kyle's career has progressed. Not surprising as he always seemed like a kid (big kid) who had it together

[klacr]

Hello! Thank you all for the terrific feedback on the article. I hope you have gained something from it. It was a wonderful experience and one I was thrilled to share with the tennisplayer.net community. I still am active with this type of coach development work and never ceases to amaze me how many really incredible players fall short on the knowledge side. But its wonderful to see their evolution from player to coach and thankfully, they are all incredibly appreciative. As am I for their time and trust in me.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach, Florida
SETS Consulting

http://www.setsconsult.org

[stotty]

Hi Kyle,

Long time no see, old bean. About time you allocated 30 minutes a week the forum. Your country needs you, and the forum even more.


I think the power of the demonstration is the most powerful tool a coach has. The ability to adopt (temporarily) the playing technique of the player being taught is mightily useful. I use continental but can use semi western on demand and adapt my swing path to give a sound demonstration. I can serve off all the stances and adapt my swing path which ever way I want. This is simply a basic in my view and all coaches should be able to do it.

I think the best thing any governing body can to do is retain former tour players into coaching and give them a pathway to develop. Most former players I have met are very grounded and realise coaching is a department all of its own. I don't think substandard coaches (whose playing level is a fair bit below tour level) can ever command the respect of an elite up and coming player. They will get found out soon enough and others coaches will soon undermine them. I think you need some playing pedigree behind you to coach good players. Either that or the ability to talk the hind legs off a donkey! Very important a coach knows his station and when to move a potentially elite player on.

Coaching club players and performance players are two entirely different things. A club player can slice, hack, and use crude strokes if they get the job done. The job of the coach here is mostly to tweak and coax rather than 'disturb' a player's game by trying to teach the impossible to incapable players. Coaching performance players is a highly skilled job and any coach embarking on that journey ought to spend a lot of time on this website.

[ten1050]

Hello John,
In an interview, Roger Federer told a story that is germane to this article. Federer was on the court hitting tennis balls with his two daughters. Roger gave the the girls a few pointers, and the daughters’ responded, “Daddy, you’re doing it all wrong, our tennis coach showed us a different way.” Roger simply said, “Oh, okay, just do it the way he showed you.” Roger Federer is not only a brilliant tennis player, he is also a brilliant tennis parent. (Frankly, I would prefer Roger’s tips.)

Norman Ashbrooke

[johnyandell]

Ha!

[klacr]

Hi Kyle,

Long time no see, old bean. About time you allocated 30 minutes a week the forum. Your country needs you, and the forum even more.


I think the power of the demonstration is the most powerful tool a coach has. The ability to adopt (temporarily) the playing technique of the player being taught is mightily useful. I use continental but can use semi western on demand and adapt my swing path to give a sound demonstration. I can serve off all the stances and adapt my swing path which ever way I want. This is simply a basic in my view and all coaches should be able to do it.

I think the best thing any governing body can to do is retain former tour players into coaching and give them a pathway to develop. Most former players I have met are very grounded and realise coaching is a department all of its own. I don't think substandard coaches (whose playing level is a fair bit below tour level) can ever command the respect of an elite up and coming player. They will get found out soon enough and others coaches will soon undermine them. I think you need some playing pedigree behind you to coach good players. Either that or the ability to talk the hind legs off a donkey! Very important a coach knows his station and when to move a potentially elite player on.

Coaching club players and performance players are two entirely different things. A club player can slice, hack, and use crude strokes if they get the job done. The job of the coach here is mostly to tweak and coax rather than 'disturb' a player's game by trying to teach the impossible to incapable players. Coaching performance players is a highly skilled job and any coach embarking on that journey ought to spend a lot of time on this website.

Thank you Stotty!
I promise to devote more time as some of these threads are worthy of deeper dives. I do agree about the level of play that some tour coaches possess. Many being former players. I however can also tell you that many do not have a ex-tour player background. Quite a few may have played college or have just been entrenched in a federation system for quite a while that they somehow rose through the ranks.
There is a huge difference between coaching a tour player and a club player. But that difference is not in the player themselves. It's in the coach. A standard former player or long time Tour coach may be regimented to a certain level of skill and athleticism from one end of the spectrum and therefore brings with them a cognitive bias of what a players capabilities are. But a good coach can and will adapt to either. I know quite a few ex-players and tour coaches that are exceptional with club players. Its in the ego (let it go) and its in the communication and approach. I have a professional on my staff that won a grand slam, shes outrageously good (obviously) but she's an even better communicator and shows empathy when a student struggles.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

http://www.setsconsult.org

[arturohernandez]

Coaching is definitely an art. I have only really worked with my kids. I cannot imagine trying to work with someone that I do not know very well. It must be very tricky to figure out what works best for each player.

Keep painting!