What Do Pro Coaches Do for their Players?

[jimlosaltos]

A old statistics joke goes: Correlation may not prove causation but they tend to happen at the same time.

Simona Halep said she didn't know Patrick Mouratoglou, joined his academy to be in a training environment. Now, during this great run, Chris Evert & Pam Shriver are noting how much better Halep is serving and credit PM. True? {Some cynics said of NBA Coach Phil Jackson that his greatest skill was picking teams: He got to coach Michael Jordan, then Kobe & Shaq.}

Meanwhile, Darren Cahill has enormous success wherever he goes. Jannik Sinner had been promising for some time, stuck, in a "sophomore slum". Cahill joins and instantly makes a Wimbledon run, after doing nothing on grass previously. Is it really possible his impact was immediate?

Lesser known Dimitri Tursunov takes over Sabalenka, she zooms to number 2. She fires him, she plummets. Arnett Kontaveit hires Dimitri, she soars to number 2 in the world. Fires him. Plummets. {Those were stylistic matches: Big belter gets big belteresses to harness their games.}

Iga Swiatek hired Tomasz Wiktorowski who "transformed her into an aggressive, attacking player who serves hard and hunts for opportunities to crush her forehand rather than hanging back and showing off one of the most creative arsenals in the game", per NYTs. Helps to have Ash Barty retire, but hard to argue with 37 straight wins.

Tatjana Maria's husband Charles-Edouard is also her coach. Child care for two daughters is taken care of <g>.

[stotty]

A old statistics joke goes: Correlation may not prove causation but they tend to happen at the same time.

Simona Halep said she didn't know Patrick Mouratoglou, joined his academy to be in a training environment. Now, during this great run, Chris Evert & Pam Shriver are noting how much better Halep is serving and credit PM. True? {Some cynics said of NBA Coach Phil Jackson that his greatest skill was picking teams: He got to coach Michael Jordan, then Kobe & Shaq.}

Meanwhile, Darren Cahill has enormous success wherever he goes. Jannik Sinner had been promising for some time, stuck, in a "sophomore slum". Cahill joins and instantly makes a Wimbledon run, after doing nothing on grass previously. Is it really possible his impact was immediate?

Lesser known Dimitri Tursunov takes over Sabalenka, she zooms to number 2. She fires him, she plummets. Arnett Kontaveit hires Dimitri, she soars to number 2 in the world. Fires him. Plummets. {Those were stylistic matches: Big belter gets big belteresses to harness their games.}

Iga Swiatek hired Tomasz Wiktorowski who "transformed her into an aggressive, attacking player who serves hard and hunts for opportunities to crush her forehand rather than hanging back and showing off one of the most creative arsenals in the game", per NYTs. Helps to have Ash Barty retire, but hard to argue with 37 straight wins.

Tatjana Maria's husband Charles-Edouard is also her coach. Child care for two daughters is taken care of <g>.

Thought provoking thread.

It would be interesting to know quite how it works in pro coaching. One imagines a tour coach 'sees' possibilities in a player not yet exploited, perhaps an adaption in game-style or the development of a particular stroke or the way that stroke is used. Some coaches like Patrick Mouratoglou have the 'gift of the gab' (not sure you have this expression in the US) and players buy into to it. The gift of the gab is incredibly valuable if you know what you're doing and downright dangerous if you don't.

But yes, overall, one imagines a successful tour coach must be insightful and see the road forward for a player and be a good navigator in terms of getting there.

[arturohernandez]

This reminds me of the article John wrote about Sampras's backhand. He was talking to Annacone about Pete's backhand. John was telling him that it was flawed and could be improved. Meanwhile, Pete was ripping backhands and loving it in practice.

Paul told him to just let Pete hit it and believe it was good. I think this is what a good coach does. He or she gives the player safety and confidence. They believe they can play better. It is the human connection.

I read at least three of Phil Jackson's books. It is clear that he was able to get things out of his players that others could not. Yes, he had great players but how can someone convince the greatest scorer of all time to pass up the game winning shot. Jackson was that good in connecting with his players. He would give them books to read. He would have them practice quieting their minds. He taught them to play as a team. And he knew when it was no longer working. The Lakers let go of Shaq and still won several championships. Jackson knew that Kobe was the center piece and that he and Shaq could not co-exist.

Jackson believed in Native American rituals. He believed in crushing the "spirit" of your opponents. With the Pistons it was about being stronger and tougher than them. Once they lost this, they walked off the court defeated. The bulls did not just win. They crushed their spirit.

Moratoglou is inspiring. Cahill is too. These great coaches make their players believe in themselves. The great coaches connect and believe in their players. So simple and yet so complicated at the same time. That is why they get the big bucks.

The real question is who feeds them intel. Who does the X's and O's and is behind the scenes? I am sure that every great coach has guru's who are looking at video, scouting and giving hints about possible game plans. Do top players have general managers, scouts and third base coaches too?

I agree that the inside view would be really fascinating.

[jimlosaltos]

Thought provoking thread.

It would be interesting to know quite how it works in pro coaching. One imagines a tour coach 'sees' possibilities in a player not yet exploited, perhaps an adaption in game-style or the development of a particular stroke or the way that stroke is used. Some coaches like Patrick Mouratoglou have the 'gift of the gab' (not sure you have this expression in the US) and players buy into to it. The gift of the gab is incredibly valuable if you know what you're doing and downright dangerous if you don't.

But yes, overall, one imagines a successful tour coach must be insightful and see the road forward for a player and be a good navigator in terms of getting there.

If it's a player's self confidence, a "gift of gab" might be just the right tool.

I recall Cahill threatening to quit on Simona at one time, bluntly ridiculing her on the side line (WTA sideline coaching) for being so negative. And basically saying to stop it or he was done.

Another time Cahill told Simona "You win with these (pointing at her thighs)". Worked again. Communications can be an invaluable skill.

But what the heck did he tell Sinner? Did Sinner change anything? Perhaps one of us can buy Darren a shandy and he'll confide <g> .

[jimlosaltos]

Physical examples we can see are rare with players already doing decently on tour.

Goran Ivanišević changed Cilic's service and helped him win a US Open.

Rodriguez messed with most everything Henin did and that worked out.

Lot of it is a black box.

[jimlosaltos]

Duplication bug

[jimlosaltos]

This reminds me of the article John wrote about Sampras's backhand. He was talking to Annacone about Pete's backhand. John was telling him that it was flawed and could be improved. Meanwhile, Pete was ripping backhands and loving it in practice.

Paul told him to just let Pete hit it and believe it was good. I think this is what a good coach does. He or she gives the player safety and confidence. They believe they can play better. It is the human connection.

I read at least three of Phil Jackson's books. It is clear that he was able to get things out of his players that others could not. Yes, he had great players but how can someone convince the greatest scorer of all time to pass up the game winning shot. Jackson was that good in connecting with his players. He would give them books to read. He would have them practice quieting their minds. He taught them to play as a team. And he knew when it was no longer working. The Lakers let go of Shaq and still won several championships. Jackson knew that Kobe was the center piece and that he and Shaq could not co-exist.

Jackson believed in Native American rituals. He believed in crushing the "spirit" of your opponents. With the Pistons it was about being stronger and tougher than them. Once they lost this, they walked off the court defeated. The bulls did not just win. They crushed their spirit.

Moratoglou is inspiring. Cahill is too. These great coaches make their players believe in themselves. The great coaches connect and believe in their players. So simple and yet so complicated at the same time. That is why they get the big bucks.

The real question is who feeds them intel. Who does the X's and O's and is behind the scenes? I am sure that every great coach has guru's who are looking at video, scouting and giving hints about possible game plans. Do top players have general managers, scouts and third base coaches too?

I agree that the inside view would be really fascinating.

Good points

As for Xs and Os, one example. Novak Djokovic was working with Craig O'Shannessy of Brain Game, for a few years, I believe.

Goran Ivanišević eventually fired him, reportedly saying, "When you're the number one player, the opponent has to play to your game, you don't have to play to theirs."

Vaguely recall something about too much info being distracting?

[stotty]

An inside seat would certainly be nice.

I found Novak's mindset ,and his team's mindset, interesting when he played Tim van Rijthoven. Clearly they had scouted Rijthoven and viewed him a big threat. Novak was ultra serious right from the get-go in their match, and his team looked even more concerned. You can understand their concern. Rijthoven has a huge serve and easy power. He's assertive, imposing and confident. I guess it's the coach's job to scout opposition and wave a red flag when danger is approaching. Novak rose to the threat and that is probably down to good reconnoissance and intelligence.

[jimlosaltos]

Here are two examples where coaches are credited with helping players at the pro level improve.

These are interesting in part because both coaches focused on improving an existing strength of their player.

Elena Rybakina hired Stefano Vukov in 2019 as he first "traveling coach". She credits him with helping make her serve motion "more efficient". She led the tour in aces in 2020 and is the ace leader this year after, from memory, hitting 58 at Wimbledon.

Iga Świątek switched to Tomasz Wiktorowski in Dec, 2021 not that long before she started her 37 match winning streak that took her to number one.

I read that Wiktorowski is responsible for making Iga play far more aggressively. A quote is roughly "Having all that power is a waste if you don't use it."

So, some coaches try to shore up weaknesses. Some focus on psychology. Here are two that apparently multiplied their player's existing strengths.

[stotty]

Here are two examples where coaches are credited with helping players at the pro level improve.

These are interesting in part because both coaches focused on improving an existing strength of their player.

Elena Rybakina hired Stefano Vukov in 2019 as he first "traveling coach". She credits him with helping make her serve motion "more efficient". She led the tour in aces in 2020 and is the ace leader this year after, from memory, hitting 58 at Wimbledon.

Iga Świątek switched to Tomasz Wiktorowski in Dec, 2021 not that long before she started her 37 match winning streak that took her to number one.

I read that Wiktorowski is responsible for making Iga play far more aggressively. A quote is roughly "Having all that power is a waste if you don't use it."

So, some coaches try to shore up weaknesses. Some focus on psychology. Here are two that apparently multiplied their player's existing strengths.

Tomasz Wiktorowski fits in with my theory that a coach 'sees' possibilities in a player that others perhaps don't...untapped potential.

[jimlosaltos]

Article on ATP site described how Maxime Cressy, a late bloomer, developed his S&V game. Fm Jan 19th. Worth resurfacing after Max won his first title.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/cressy-australian-open-2022-feature

This falls in the category of: Identify strength, then maximize it.

Excerpts;

"In 2015-16, when he was a college freshman at UCLA, he did not crack his team’s singles lineup. “He’s not even the same player when you look at him,” Rapp said. “He was getting beat down every single day at practice early on and then became one of the better players in the country in college by the very end. ... “He had the right build obviously: 6’7”, very strong, fit. But not a lot of structure to his game at all. He had a pretty big serve, but not a lot of variety. He didn’t know how to hit a kick serve yet. He wasn’t volleying well yet. He really had no returns, so he was kind of just a big guy with not a tonne behind it.”

~~~~~~

At the time, Cressy worked with UCLA Head Coach Billy Martin to try to refine his groundstrokes and find his identity as a player. Rapp remembers them spending “countless hours” on his baseline game to try to improve in that area. But when Cressy served and volleyed, he generally had success, and they made the decision to focus on that.

“I think Billy deserves the credit for that. When he fully committed to that, thinking he had a 6’7” super lightning fast, strong, physical guy and you make that shift it was going to be really hard to beat him if he mastered that game style,” Rapp said. “Once [Cressy] started committing to that game style, he just ran with it.”

~~~~~~

[klacr]

A old statistics joke goes: Correlation may not prove causation but they tend to happen at the same time.

Simona Halep said she didn't know Patrick Mouratoglou, joined his academy to be in a training environment. Now, during this great run, Chris Evert & Pam Shriver are noting how much better Halep is serving and credit PM. True? {Some cynics said of NBA Coach Phil Jackson that his greatest skill was picking teams: He got to coach Michael Jordan, then Kobe & Shaq.}

Meanwhile, Darren Cahill has enormous success wherever he goes. Jannik Sinner had been promising for some time, stuck, in a "sophomore slum". Cahill joins and instantly makes a Wimbledon run, after doing nothing on grass previously. Is it really possible his impact was immediate?

Lesser known Dimitri Tursunov takes over Sabalenka, she zooms to number 2. She fires him, she plummets. Arnett Kontaveit hires Dimitri, she soars to number 2 in the world. Fires him. Plummets. {Those were stylistic matches: Big belter gets big belteresses to harness their games.}

Iga Swiatek hired Tomasz Wiktorowski who "transformed her into an aggressive, attacking player who serves hard and hunts for opportunities to crush her forehand rather than hanging back and showing off one of the most creative arsenals in the game", per NYTs. Helps to have Ash Barty retire, but hard to argue with 37 straight wins.

Tatjana Maria's husband Charles-Edouard is also her coach. Child care for two daughters is taken care of <g>.

Again, very late to this thread, apologies for that.
Having experience with players (WTA) and working with their teams I can add my two cents.
The examples you gave are all correct. Some players need guidance in their technical, tactical games. Some need it between the ears. Some (veteran players) just need a sounding board and travel with just a physio who act as a coach but are a bit clueless on the tennis game. Kaia Kanepi comes to mind with this example. She visited me after Miami Open in April along with Polish Tour player Magda Linette for a mini-camp. Kanepi is 37, doing this long enough and is professional enough to know what to do on her own. But she travels with only her trainer Indrek Tustit (who previously worked with Bryan Brothers). I know many of them also do things off the court. Going over scouting and match analytics (as Pere Rita, coach of Zheng is doing as I type speak for the Pliskova match)

The player is the boss so it's up to them who they travel with. Coaches can have some input but it's the player that is funding it. Its also about the connection the player and coach can make.
a coaches job is to improve the player, empower the person.
How a player interprets or absorbs that is what creates the coaches purpose for being there.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

http://www.setsconsult.org

[jimlosaltos]

Again, very late to this thread, apologies for that.
Having experience with players (WTA) and working with their teams I can add my two cents.
The examples you gave are all correct. Some players need guidance in their technical, tactical games. Some need it between the ears. Some (veteran players) just need a sounding board and travel with just a physio who act as a coach but are a bit clueless on the tennis game. Kaia Kanepi comes to mind with this example. She visited me after Miami Open in April along with Polish Tour player Magda Linette for a mini-camp. Kanepi is 37, doing this long enough and is professional enough to know what to do on her own. But she travels with only her trainer Indrek Tustit (who previously worked with Bryan Brothers). I know many of them also do things off the court. Going over scouting and match analytics (as Pere Rita, coach of Zheng is doing as I type speak for the Pliskova match)

The player is the boss so it's up to them who they travel with. Coaches can have some input but it's the player that is funding it. Its also about the connection the player and coach can make.
a coaches job is to improve the player, empower the person.
How a player interprets or absorbs that is what creates the coaches purpose for being there.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting
http://www.setsconsult.org

Thanks for the insight !

Since the coaches/ player’s boxes are mic’ed up in Canada on Stadium we get some idea of what extremely short tidbits can be delivered mid-match.

Brad Stine to Tommy Paul while beating Carlos Alcaraz 6-7(4) 7-6 (7) 6-3 at the end of the 2nd set "eyes and feet".

“Play Tommy tennis right here. Play some Tommy ball.” - Brad Stine before the 2nd set TB.

[klacr]

Thanks for the insight !

Since the coaches/ player’s boxes are mic’ed up in Canada on Stadium we get some idea of what extremely short tidbits can be delivered mid-match.

Brad Stine to Tommy Paul while beating Carlos Alcaraz 6-7(4) 7-6 (7) 6-3 at the end of the 2nd set "eyes and feet".

“Play Tommy tennis right here. Play some Tommy ball.” - Brad Stine before the 2nd set TB.

and that's fortunately because Brad Stine kept the mic on. Some coaches, won't mention any names, will "accidentally" turn off the mic when they sit down.

Kyle Lacroix USPTA,PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

http://www.setsconsult.org