The Serve: Where Are We Now? Second Serve

[johnyandell]

Would love to discuss my latest article, "The Serve: Where Are We Now? Second Serve"

[jeremy93]

Fantastic article John! I like that u mention the depth of contact should be above the center of the head as I have always heard body references to the left to right axis but not the forward and back. Thank you.

[stotty]

Nice article. One thing I always wanted to know with regard to second serves at pro level, is does the ball travel a minuscule upwards after it leaves the racket? I know this is something an accomplished player can 'make' happen if he hits violently upwards on the ball so that it loops slowly into the box. In theory, an aggressive kick serve, with good clearance over the net, should travel a tad upwards as it leaves the strings, but when I look in the archive and try to reference how the ball leaves the racket, it doesn't seem to.

[johnyandell]

Look at this:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Andre_Agassi_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Serve/2nd_Serve&stroke=AA_2ndS%20Ad%20CourtLevelSide3%20125fps.mp4&new=

If it is moving up not sure what that means and pretty sure it isn't intentional...

[stotty]

If you use the crowd, and what looks like a staircase entrance in the background, as reference points, then the serve definitely seems to be travelling upwards after the strike. Looking at Andre's follow through, you get the sense he really pumped that particular second serve in.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...25fps.mp4&new=

I guess a good way to look at this is there are numerous ways to deliver a second serve.

[johnyandell]

Agreed...

[doctorhl]

Nice article. One thing I always wanted to know with regard to second serves at pro level, is does the ball travel a minuscule upwards after it leaves the racket? I know this is something an accomplished player can 'make' happen if he hits violently upwards on the ball so that it loops slowly into the box. In theory, an aggressive kick serve, with good clearance over the net, should travel a tad upwards as it leaves the strings, but when I look in the archive and try to reference how the ball leaves the racket, it doesn't seem to.

In addition to the upward travel theory, I wish someone could capture the “ oblong” ball that we all have seen occur in the air on very heavy kick serves. It seems it would take a vertical swing path and great head speed to get a ball to “ oblong”.

[doctorhl]

Would love to discuss my latest article, "The Serve: Where Are We Now? Second Serve"

The ball toss right/left and forward/back axis discussion helped me out too. Can you draw those toss paths and end points within those four axis in an overhead view of a server? That would clear it up for me a little better.

[johnyandell]

Not sure...but will investigate...

[tennis chiro]

John, I really enjoyed the article, but I have one question. I had always understood that it was important to follow through across to the other side of the body because it relieved the stress at the elbow joint. If you follow through to the same side of the body (right for rightys), you can get more "American twist" kick, but you are essentially throwing a screwball and that has long term consequences for your arm. Even if they do start the follow through off to the right on their kickers, I try to get my students to complete the action on the opposite side of their body to get the arm to relax. Otherwise, I think it is an invitation to tennis elbow.

don brosseau

[johnyandell]

Yeah agreed. But if you are Milos or Pete and throw more to the left, the arm can still relax and finish on the right side. It's the idiots who force this that risk injury.