Wimbledon Championships 2022

[stotty]

Novak looking amazing towards the end....complete lockdown and total control.

[jeffreycounts]

Tsitsipas accused Kygios of being a "bully". I know it's probably exhausting to play the guy, but curious what other people think.

[jimlosaltos]

Tsitsipas accused Kygios of being a "bully". I know it's probably exhausting to play the guy, but curious what other people think.

Absolutely. Is it debatable?

He's a malignant narcissist, characterized by enjoying lording power over others and abusing people, particularly those that can't defend themselves, such as lines people. There's a need to be the center of attention, a need to take over from others, to take control of a situation away from those around him, so that he has power over them.

Remember the vulgar comments he made mid-match to Wawrinka about his then girlfriend? And the lies later that he apologized to her (Vekic says he never did). Normal, decent people don't do those things.

He's abusive even when he can't find anything to be upset about. In Kyrgios' prior match with Tsitsipas (Halle, was it?) he was obviously nervous when he walked on court, so he started complaining to the chair almost as soon as we walked out on court. Chewed out the chair ump because he supposedly heard a phone ring somewhere in the stadium, "What if it was Wimbledon and it was match point?" he scolded the ump repeatedly as if the ump has control over ever sound from every fan in the stadium.

It's abuse for abuse's sake.

Sadly.

[stroke]

Absolutely. Is it debatable?

He's a malignant narcissist, characterized by enjoying lording power over others and abusing people, particularly those that can't defend themselves, such as lines people. There's a need to be the center of attention, a need to take over from others, to take control of a situation away from those around him, so that he has power over them.

Remember the vulgar comments he made mid-match to Wawrinka about his then girlfriend? And the lies later that he apologized to her (Vekic says he never did). Normal, decent people don't do those things.

He's abusive even when he can't find anything to be upset about. In Kyrgios' prior match with Tsitsipas (Halle, was it?) he was obviously nervous when he walked on court, so he started complaining to the chair almost as soon as we walked out on court. Chewed out the chair ump because he supposedly heard a phone ring somewhere in the stadium, "What if it was Wimbledon and it was match point?" he scolded the ump repeatedly as if the ump has control over ever sound from every fan in the stadium.

It's abuse for abuse's sake.

Sadly.

So true, but to me, the rules are in place. The umpire in that match to me failed as miserably as I have ever seen. Not ok. He needs to be removed from the job period. If Nick had been defaulted early in the 2nd set, as he should have been(to me, he had easily already accumulated 3 justified warnings already by then), who knows, he may have pause to rethink his behavior. If not, so be it. It is all about consequences, as it is for everyone, or should be.

[jimlosaltos]

So true, but to me, the rules are in place. The umpire in that match to me failed as miserably as I have ever seen. Not ok. He needs to be removed from the job period. If Nick had been defaulted early in the 2nd set, as he should have been(to me, he had easily already accumulated 3 justified warnings already by then), who knows, he may have pause to rethink his behavior. If not, so be it. It is all about consequences, as it is for everyone, or should be.

Absolutely. We agree.

One rule that's not used is the hindrance rule.

I recall a WTA player being called for a hindrance for loudly tapping her racket during her opponents' serve build up.

Steve Tignor wrote on Tennis.com that there's no rule on talking. Not true. As opponents get ready to serve and Nick chirps at the chair, hit him with a hindrance. Legitimate call.

Then there's Nick's tomahawk racket throw right at a ball kids' face. After match, bit ATP should have suspended him immediately.

Lots of "enablers" that don't want to "interfere with the match". They're interfering with tennis being played.

I could go on

[arturohernandez]

Absolutely. We agree.

One rule that's not used is the hindrance rule.

I recall a WTA player being called for a hindrance for loudly tapping her racket during her opponents' serve build up.

Steve Tignor wrote on Tennis.com that there's no rule on talking. Not true. As opponents get ready to serve and Nick chirps at the chair, hit him with a hindrance. Legitimate call.

Then there's Nick's tomahawk racket throw right at a ball kids' face. After match, bit ATP should have suspended him immediately.

Lots of "enablers" that don't want to "interfere with the match". They're interfering with tennis being played.

I could go on

I felt the same way about a brat in the late 70’s. There is one player that settled him down. The only way for his opponent to manage him is to ice him. No reaction to ANYTHING. I saw Kyrigios’s interview on Espn. He does all this on purpose.

He adds $$$ to a tournament’s pocket. Not supporting his behavior, just hoping his opponents will learn to stop him by just ignoring everything he does.

[stroke]

I felt the same way about a brat in the late 70’s. There is one player that settled him down. The only way for his opponent to manage him is to ice him. No reaction to ANYTHING. I saw Kyrigios’s interview on Espn. He does all this on purpose.

He adds $$$ to a tournament’s pocket. Not supporting his behavior, just hoping his opponents will learn to stop him by just ignoring everything he does.

Certainly the ol just ignore him is a time tested option, but not here to me. Nick clearly made numerous code violations that needed to be enforced. He is just wrong and the rules are in place. It is way too late for the Tsitsipas match. That one is done and dusted. In the future, the rules can be enforced if anyone cares to do so. I cannot imagine a better chance though to enforce the code violations than this "match". Kyrgios only getting 1 in the entire match was just a gross whiff, massive incompetence by the chair umpire and the so called Wimbledon Officials, an an insult to the sport. The sport was damaged to me. It can be remedied.

We had a poster at one time that likened the direction of the sport to professional wrestling. I did not agree at the time, but this match and the umpire and official incompetence was just that. A bad cheater wrestler complete with an incompetent referee that does not see what happened. Somewhere, Vince McMahon must be smiling.

[glacierguy]

I didn't see all of the Kyrgios/Tsitsipas match, but fairly early on (one of the first two sets) it seemed to me that Kyrgios got away with an F-bomb whilst sitting at the chair. It was clearly audible on BBC, and the commentators were apologising to their audience, but I don't believe Kyrgios was punished. Even if the umpire didn't hear (which would be odd), it should be possible for someone to relay the information - after all, millions heard it on the BBC and elsewhere! After that, it just got worse. Kyrgios should have been defaulted. (And I don't like Tsitsipas.) In my view the game was brought into disrepute.

[jimlosaltos]

I didn't see all of the Kyrgios/Tsitsipas match, but fairly early on (one of the first two sets) it seemed to me that Kyrgios got away with an F-bomb whilst sitting at the chair. It was clearly audible on BBC, and the commentators were apologising to their audience, but I don't believe Kyrgios was punished. Even if the umpire didn't hear (which would be odd), it should be possible for someone to relay the information - after all, millions heard it on the BBC and elsewhere! After that, it just got worse. Kyrgios should have been defaulted. (And I don't like Tsitsipas.) In my view the game was brought into disrepute.

Well put. The umpire lost control of the match early. He was too timid. I think we'd all agree on that much.

In fairness, they're put in an untenable position. They're gig workers, like Uber drivers but with even less job security. Stand up to a bully, as Carlos Ramos did at a US Open, and you lose "assignments", i.e. effectively get fined for doing your job.

We learned that when Rafa had Carlos Bernardes "banned" from his matches for enforcing a time delay violation. Umps are paid by match and paid more for later round matches. So, being banned from a top ranked players matches is a fine. In other words, a top-ranked player can fine an umpire if he doesn't like the call. Tournaments also can effectively "fine" umpires if enforcing the rules reduces their ticket revenue.

[jimlosaltos]

I felt the same way about a brat in the late 70’s. There is one player that settled him down. The only way for his opponent to manage him is to ice him. No reaction to ANYTHING. I saw Kyrigios’s interview on Espn. He does all this on purpose.

He adds $$$ to a tournament’s pocket. Not supporting his behavior, just hoping his opponents will learn to stop him by just ignoring everything he does.

I was at a match between McEnroe and Johan Kriek once, way back. At the Cow Palace south of San Francisco.

McEnroe started acting up, disrupting the match. Kriek walked to the net pointed at McEnroe and said something I couldn't hear. Others claimed it was something like "Shut up or I'm coming across the net and shutting you up." Amazingly, it worked. McEnroe made nary a peep the rest of the match and lost timidly.

I don't propose that as general solution, or substitute for officials. But it's one data point that if one doesn't draw the line with bullies, they keep moving the line further and further.

It would be preferable if officials -- and tournament organizers -- did the standing up.

[stroke]

What makes this situation even more nauseating/sickening in the way the media has questioned Nick about this. They could not have kissed his ass more, reminiscent of the media coverage of Hillary Clinton when she ran against Trump. Fawning so called "media", just not a good look. And the fans in the stand, who mostly sided with Nick, just so grossly nauseating.

[stroke]

Updated odds to win Wimbledon:

Novak, implied probability of winning tournament 71.4%
Nadal 15.4%
Media darling and fan favorite Nick, 11.7%
Fritz, 5.2%
Sinner, 4.5%

[stotty]

I was at a match between McEnroe and Johan Kriek once, way back. At the Cow Palace south of San Francisco.

McEnroe started acting up, disrupting the match. Kriek walked to the net pointed at McEnroe and said something I couldn't hear. Others claimed it was something like "Shut up or I'm coming across the net and shutting you up." Amazingly, it worked. McEnroe made nearly a peep the rest of the match and lost timidly.

I don't propose that as general solution, or substitute for officials. But it's one data point that if one doesn't draw the line with bullies, they keep moving the line further and further.

It would be preferable if officials -- and tournament organizers -- did the standing up.

My father witnessed the exact same thing with Onny Parun in his Wimbledon quarter final match against Nastase. Onny, on a changeover, told Nastase if he didn't shut up he'd thump him. Nasty never said another word the whole match. Sometimes it's what’s needed to make these people understand.

[stotty]

Nadal goes through after a fraught end to the third set against the Dutch bloke whose name I cannot remember how to spell. Novak is looking better than Nadal at this point but who knows what that really means at this point in the tournament. Novak has a potentially tough match against Sinner who plays a little like Novak anyways.

It's a weak tournament this year. The weakest I can remember.

[jimlosaltos]

Nadal goes through after a fraught end to the third set against the Dutch bloke whose name I cannot remember how to spell. Novak is looking better than Nadal at this point but who knows what that really means at this point in the tournament. Novak has a potentially tough match against Sinner who plays a little like Novak anyways.

It's a weak tournament this year. The weakest I can remember.

Novak could meet Rafa in the finals with neither beating a single top ten player. That's just wrong IMHO.


You can only beat who shows up. But that's not a "major" title.