Serving troubles

[mikeoz]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the early process of trying to learn the serve from scratch. In advance I've been doing various tennis arm care/throwers 10 exercises but despite this I'm still having problems.

In the video below I find even the basic external to internal rotation Don demonstrates at 1:30 aggravates my shoulder, even swinging slowly. Is this normal? Have coaches on here experienced this with beginner adult players when teaching the serve? It's not pain during the motion, but more like soreness in the shoulder an hour or so after.

I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this.

Thanks,

Michael

[doctorhl]

Be careful of stopping the external rotation as demonstrated in the video. Even though you are concentrating on learning that aspect, even easy movement without a subsequent follow through can initiate soreness after awhile.

[doctorhl]

Sorry, I meant internal rotation!

[johnyandell]

My suggestion is to go to Teaching Systems and watch my series there.

[mikeoz]

Thanks for the replies.

Doctorhl, I've been doing the full shoulder rotation exactly as Don demonstrates at 1:33 https://youtu.be/e6MQ9_pb7SQ?t=93. This causes soreness in my shoulder some time after - even when only performing 20 or 30 reps relatively slowly. It's not something I was expecting having done so much to prepare my shoulder in advance. Thanks for pointing out the injury potential of suddenly stopping the racket though, that makes sense.

Thanks John, have you experienced adult students who find that the full shoulder rotation irritates their shoulder? Is it normal for beginners?

All i'm aware of technique wise is to avoid over abducting the upper arm too much past the shoulder line. It tends to put you more at risk of impingement. This is obviously tricky when the target is overhead.

[stotty]

Thanks for the replies.

Doctorhl, I've been doing the full shoulder rotation exactly as Don demonstrates at 1:33 https://youtu.be/e6MQ9_pb7SQ?t=93. This causes soreness in my shoulder some time after - even when only performing 20 or 30 reps relatively slowly. It's not something I was expecting having done so much to prepare my shoulder in advance. Thanks for pointing out the injury potential of suddenly stopping the racket though, that makes sense.

Thanks John, have you experienced adult students who find that the full shoulder rotation irritates their shoulder? Is it normal for beginners?

All i'm aware of technique wise is to avoid over abducting the upper arm too much past the shoulder line. It tends to put you more at risk of impingement. This is obviously tricky when the target is overhead.

Why not post a video so we can take a look at you carrying out the motion? You could just be unlucky and have tweaked something in your shoulder trying to learn something your shoulder isn't used to for the first time. I would suggest that's the most likely scenario. But, yes, let's take a look.

[johnyandell]

Stotty's right we need video! But potentially it could be hard on your shoulder if you stopped the rotation instead of following through. Not a fan of that video.

[mikeoz]

Thanks guys,

I'll get some footage. Bare in mind there's not much to show as I'm starting from the beginning. I'll start from the drop position and complete the follow through as John suggested instead of stopping the rotation. Hopefully this helps.

[stotty]

Thanks guys,

I'll get some footage. Bare in mind there's not much to show as I'm starting from the beginning. I'll start from the drop position and complete the follow through as John suggested instead of stopping the rotation. Hopefully this helps.

We'll look forward to seeing it!

Don's video is more of a gentle walk-through of the positions. I don't think the clip encourages a player to carry them out strenuously. Lots of coaches teach shots in segments. I tend to get students to visualise the whole and ask them to carry it out via shadow stroking numerous times before then asking them to attempt the real thing. Feeling and visualisation are the main cues I ask students to reach for. But ultimately it's what cues and methods work best for you as a student. The main thing is to be open to ideas and experimentation and anything that will get you there.

Don was a regular on the forum and is an excellent coach, by the way. He also had a terrific serve himself in his youth.

[johnyandell]

That's not our Don is it??

[stotty]

That's not our Don is it??

It is indeed! Otherwise known on the forum as tennis_chiro. He made that video some years ago as I recollect.

[johnyandell]

Wow. Mentions Wegner...

[don_budge]

Wow. Mentions Wegner...

I was digging deep into the past forums and came across some exchanges between you and bottle regarding what's his name. Oscar Wegner. I have to tell you johnyandell...those exchanges were fascinating. Your posts were surgical.

[EdWeiss]

That is Don. He was demonstrating a number of progressive drills on the serve. I have found them very useful in teaching the serve. Being the expert on biomechanics that he is, he is not a Wegner fan. He did like one Werner drill to help a player’s feeling on one aspect of the serve and that is what you see/hear of on the clip. Thanks.

[johnyandell]

Thanks DB and Ed. Thankfully Oscar and his minions seem to have gone to pasture. I had a long personal history with his various lies and bizarre claims. Glad to put that behind.