Tour Strokes: Mysteries of Medvedev's Forehand

[johnyandell]

Would love to get your thoughts on my latest article, "Tour Strokes: Mysteries of Medvedev's Forehand"

[jeremy93]

Great article John. I found the lack of time he has compared to Fed due to his backswing size very interesting. I noticed Medvedev has limited pronation just after contact. I think that’s largely due to him making contact so close to his body (laterally and less in front). Thoughts? Also I wonder if him having a large backswing makes it less natural to get the full stretch of the non-dominant arm during the preparation. Do you see any correlations with that?

[stroke]

John, you mentioned that Fed has 1/10 of a second or less, bounce to contact. Have you measured anyone else who is close to that?

[jimlosaltos]

John, you mentioned that Fed has 1/10 of a second or less, bounce to contact. Have you measured anyone else who is close to that?

I have no idea what the measurements are, but I'd suggest Aslan Karatsev. Both on the forehand but even more so on the service return.

[jimlosaltos]

Great analysis and vid, John.

I can't resist posting this. I overlaid a frame from your vid of Meddy on Tsitsipas.

What's the difference on the reverse follow through? Mainly, that Tsitsi is hitting a backhand <g>

filedata/fetch?id=95807&d=1635964483&type=thumb

[stroke]

I have no idea what the measurements are, but I'd suggest Aslan Karatsev. Both on the forehand but even more so on the service return.

Karatsev I was thinking also. Also Fognini maybe.

[stroke]

Great analysis and vid, John.

I can't resist posting this. I overlaid a frame from your vid of Meddy on Tsitsipas.

What's the difference on the reverse follow through? Mainly, that Tsitsi is hitting a backhand <g>

filedata/fetch?id=95807&d=1635964483&type=thumb

Stef does appear to be way more western fh grip there than his standard fh grip.

[jeffreycounts]

So here's the question for me. If he's hitting the ball late (looks quite late to me and very close to the body) and he has practically no extension through the shot, how is he hitting the ball so hard?

medvedev_contact.jpg

[jimlosaltos]

Karatsev I was thinking also. Also Fognini maybe.

Good one. Certainly, Fogs has the hand speed.

[doctorhl]

Wow! He is certainly is the poster boy for the danger of pigeon- holing a developing player’s strokes! It seems his open stance and lack of extension may have evolved because it allowed for quicker court coverage. That type of arm swing must require some unusual arm strength/ joint flexibility.

[jimlosaltos]

Perhaps John can analyze Meddy's net technique next? <g>

I call this "The Split Grip, Two-Handed Shovel", aka The Croquet Mallet Shot.

Personally, I view any succesful venture to the net as akin to how a pilot friend of mine explained landing a private plane:

"Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing."

Source Unk

[johnyandell]

No thanks I've had enough of him for awhile...

[stroke]

No thanks I've had enough of him for awhile...

Not easy on the eye.

[stotty]

The article backs up my theory that it's mostly about the player and far less about the coach. A player of Medvedev's ability will likely reach the top flight either with or without a coach. Players like Medvedev and Borg can pretty much find their own way. You look at some players on the tour and you get the feeling a good few have succeeded despite coaching rather than because of it.

It's hard to quantify the value of coaching in exact terms but it may contribute less than 15 percent to a player’s overall development versus what a player might have achieved if left to their own devices. This is not to diminish coaching. Even if the value of coaching were only 10%, it could still be an extremely important 10% if a coach knows his stuff.

I do feel some players are wired to play a certain way and trying to adapt their strokes to more optimal techniques will never pan out. As my predecessor once said to me, sometimes the best coaching you do is when you shut up and let them get on with it.

[don_budge]

Would love to get your thoughts on my latest article, "Tour Strokes: Mysteries of Medvedev's Forehand"

So here's the question for me. If he's hitting the ball late (looks quite late to me and very close to the body) and he has practically no extension through the shot, how is he hitting the ball so hard?

Wow! He is certainly is the poster boy for the danger of pigeon- holing a developing player’s strokes! It seems his open stance and lack of extension may have evolved because it allowed for quicker court coverage. That type of arm swing must require some unusual arm strength/ joint flexibility.

Fascinating article johnyandell. So interesting and it definitely raises some interesting questions. Questions such as the one posed by jeffreycounts. What made it so interesting too, is that I watched Medvedev struggle against the diminutive left-handed French players last night some. I have nicknamed Daniil Medvedev "Mr. Pencil" and it is for a couple of different reasons. Number one...he looks like a pencil. Number two...he has definitely designed his own game. He is an enigma. A bit peculiar. I think this is reflected in his strokes. Nothing he does is ultra orthodox and that is part of his "charm". His style is unique and therefore it is hard to figure out with the boots on the ground. Once he draws you into a rally it doesn't necessarily go like you think it would.

He does meet the ball late and with less spin as noted in the article. I would think that less spin might somehow help him to gain something of power in another sense. Control is power and control is made up of three elements...spin, speed and placement. I think that he picks up in the speed and placement departments with the less spin. He really threads the needle when he needs to. He came up with such a shot against Korda hit at full stretch to the forehand with Korda approaching. An amazing shot.

Easy on the eyes? Well...beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. It certainly is far from classical in the respect it is missing elements of what you identify as indigene to more classical strokes...such a Roger Federer's. I think that is where some of the beauty of his strokes lie in that he defies conventional wisdom and he is really his own man out there. Anybody that can basically flip off the entire New York mob in the middle of the night at the U. S. Open has to be pretty damn sure of himself. It will be interesting to see how his career plays out going forwards. Seeing as he is running in the outside lane so to speak.

But truly an excellent article. The contrast between your observations and what he was doing with the ball was just fascinating. I think I will read it again and watch a bit of his match against Alexander Zverev. It was a good choice to explore too. Because it is so different and in contrast to what the rest of the players are doing with their forehands. Good stuff...really good.

Thanks John! Most interesting. A unique take on a unique stroke.