Tennis Olympic Behavior

[doctorhl]

While forum readers all understand competition intensity, in light of Djoko and Katchnakov recent Olympic displays of racket abuse after a loss, is tennis approaching an ice hockey view of the game? Perhaps a post match penalty box?

[jimlosaltos]

I have mixed feelings. I used to think there was nothing wrong with smashing a racket. It shows emotion and brings energy to a match. But lately, we've seen examples where the players don't merely smash the racket they do so in proximity to others, or literally throw the racket. That's just wrong IMHO and, frankly, a point penalty isn't nearly enough. The way Djokovic smashed his racket in losing the Bronze match, sending a ball boy running, merits something serious. You hate to see a suspension. On the other hand, the very top players are so rich anything else is like a parking ticket to them.

[stotty]

I have mixed feelings. I used to think there was nothing wrong with smashing a racket. It shows emotion and brings energy to a match. But lately, we've seen examples where the players don't merely smash the racket they so in proximity to others, or literally throw the racket. That's just wrong IMHO and, frankly, a point penalty isn't nearly enough. The way Djokovic smashed his racket in losing the Bronze match, sending a ball boy running, merits something serious. You hate to see a suspension. On the other hand, the very top players are so rich anything else is like a parking ticket to them.

It was a terrible look that let tennis down very badly. On top of this, a number of tennis players were complaining about the heat and the timing of their matches. I didn't hear any athletes from other disciplines complaining of the heat. What a precious and spoilt lot tennis players have become.

I have little interest in tennis in the Olympics. It just doesn't belong there. I am not sure BMX bikes belong there either.

[don_budge]

I have mixed feelings. I used to think there was nothing wrong with smashing a racket. It shows emotion and brings energy to a match. But lately, we've seen examples where the players don't merely smash the racket they so in proximity to others, or literally throw the racket. That's just wrong IMHO and, frankly, a point penalty isn't nearly enough. The way Djokovic smashed his racket in losing the Bronze match, sending a ball boy running, merits something serious. You hate to see a suspension. On the other hand, the very top players are so rich anything else is like a parking ticket to them.

Busta was taking cover...shielding his eyes. Djokovic doesn't learn. He nearly decapitated a lines person and was DQ'd from the U. S. Open. Just think if a graphite shard were to get into somebodies eye or worse. That kind of behaviour is unseemly...not that the impulse doesn't exist in all of us. Sometimes I would dearly love to send one of my golf clubs into the next world. So far I have resisted the impulse. It's a bad look. My Swedish golf partners were rather appalled by it.

Jerkovic didn't want to be there for a number of reasons and he was irritated, frustrated and it was bubbling over inside of him. Representing a country doesn't mean much to a tennis player. Tennis players are so self absorbed and they are trained to be that way and it is in a way necessary that they are that way. You gotta be like that Nicki...I once wrote to a Serbian tennis player on this forum. But tennis is not really an Olympic sport and these are professionals as well. It used to be that the professionals were not allowed to compete in the Olympics. It was just as well too. It was a different type of competition but as everything else is now...it is polluted. The Swede was asking me...why was he there? Because his brand required him to be there. An Olympic Gold Medal is nothing to a tennis player. Hell...to a tennis player love means nothing.

[averymia]

Not sure what Roger's forehand is doing all the way down the food chain at number 14. Not sure I can that seriously.
Agut has a better forehand than Thiem or Fed? That's simply not credible. Not even close. I like RBA, but no way.

[don_budge]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-olympic-boss-hideki-matsui-flame-not-naomi-osaka

A footnote in the continuing saga of Naomi Osaka. I have a funny feeling we haven't heard the last of her shenanigans. The "woke" Olympics had her light the eternal flame of the Olympics but she wasn't the first choice of one Japanese man.

[stroke]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-ol...ot-naomi-osaka

A footnote in the continuing saga of Naomi Osaka. I have a funny feeling we haven't heard the last of her shenanigans. The "woke" Olympics had her light the eternal flame of the Olympics but she wasn't the first choice of one Japanese man.

We certainly have not seen the last of her shenanigans. She is woke for life, and the enablers are around everywhere.

[jimlosaltos]

We certainly have not seen the last of her shenanigans. She is woke for life, and the enablers are around everywhere.

Did any of you see Daniell Collins last night in San Jose? I was courtside for the Scream Down in Downtown SJ!
Here's a representative sample: https://twitter.com/tennis_gifs/stat...66978816884743

It seems as if every time Collins would lose a point in the tie break she would scream -- make that SCREAM in ALL CAPS -- at the chair that her opponent, Kasatkina "screamed" during the point. Now, Kasatkina is quiet as a mouse on court, barely a whisper and can hardly hear her shoes squeak, let alone screaming during a point. So, Collins was lying (to herself, perhaps?) to divert blame for losing. At first it was annoying, then I began to feel sorry for her. I suspect she can't help herself - zero self-control.

Update: A friend says Collins was ranting at the crowd, not at Katakana. I still think it was both, but maybe he's right.

Tough job for the chair. Tennis should have a penalty aking to the NBA's "No Flopping" rule <g>.

[arturohernandez]

Busta was taking cover...shielding his eyes. Djokovic doesn't learn. He nearly decapitated a lines person and was DQ'd from the U. S. Open. Just think if a graphite shard were to get into somebodies eye or worse. That kind of behaviour is unseemly...not that the impulse doesn't exist in all of us. Sometimes I would dearly love to send one of my golf clubs into the next world. So far I have resisted the impulse. It's a bad look. My Swedish golf partners were rather appalled by it.

Jerkovic didn't want to be there for a number of reasons and he was irritated, frustrated and it was bubbling over inside of him. Representing a country doesn't mean much to a tennis player. Tennis players are so self absorbed and they are trained to be that way and it is in a way necessary that they are that way. You gotta be like that Nicki...I once wrote to a Serbian tennis player on this forum. But tennis is not really an Olympic sport and these are professionals as well. It used to be that the professionals were not allowed to compete in the Olympics. It was just as well too. It was a different type of competition but as everything else is now...it is polluted. The Swede was asking me...why was he there? Because his brand required him to be there. An Olympic Gold Medal is nothing to a tennis player. Hell...to a tennis player love means nothing.

I feel like Djokovic is straddling a fine line between dominance and destruction. He clearly needs these dark emotions to play better. But he has trouble containing them all the time.

The other thing that has caught my eye is how he falls into these funks and then seems to survive by outlasting his opponent. He cannot keep playing this way as it is very tiring. He keeps proving me wrong but I think sooner or later it will catch up with him. The big three seems to have fought off age for a long time.

Can they keep doing it? Are the outbreaks from Djokovic caused by the toll it takes for him to keep performing at such a high level? Only time will tell.

He seems fragile to me in some way. After 19 GS's who wouldn't be?

[don_budge]

Mental Issues...Jiminy Glick and John McEnroe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rK_1xGp7cg. (55 seconds into video)

"You had these temper tantrums...was this a publicists idea or do you really have mental problems?" ...Jiminy Glick to the Great John McEnroe

I feel like Djokovic is straddling a fine line between dominance and destruction. He clearly needs these dark emotions to play better. But he has trouble containing them all the time.

The other thing that has caught my eye is how he falls into these funks and then seems to survive by outlasting his opponent. He cannot keep playing this way as it is very tiring. He keeps proving me wrong but I think sooner or later it will catch up with him. The big three seems to have fought off age for a long time.

Can they keep doing it? Are the outbreaks from Djokovic caused by the toll it takes for him to keep performing at such a high level? Only time will tell.

He seems fragile to me in some way. After 19 GS's who wouldn't be?

If you think Novak Djokovic is straddling that line...do a reality check. This guy is so in control for the moment it isn't funny. He has been over the course of 19 major tournament wins not to mention the various and sundry that go along with it. Not to mention the millions and millions of dollars to boot. He is in control. As for his little demonstrations in the moment of match play...it is just as much spectacle and for show as it is due to his being "annoyed" or "frustrated". Is he showing some wear and tear around the edges? It could be. Are cracks starting to manifest themselves in the veneer of his public personna and the shield that protects him from his image? That could very well be.

Every human being is faced with a lifelong balancing act, trying to manage their dysfunction. Let's face it. That is one thing we ALL have in common. Novak is no exception. But he has been masterful beyond belief to put it mildly. Some of these Houdini acts that he has performed his entire career. These escape acts. This is a huge part of his brilliance. His shield. The frustration and the annoyance are symptoms of the what the future holds for him...that no human being can escape. There has been a toll of course. He has been around the world umpteen times performing his act for so many years. How many years ago did I start that thread...in 2011.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...kovic-meteoric

That's ten years he has been straddling the line. Dominance. He is the destroyer. He isn't having any problems containing. He is just using them a bit more liberally.


https://www.oann.com/tennis-osaka-fe...ude-to-tennis/

The above is a tennis player that is exhibiting some obvious mental health problems. One of them is called a lack of reality based experience. Novak has managed that one like a maestro. This one struggles answering benign questions from idiots in the cesspool...I mean press pool.

[arturohernandez]

Mental Issues...Jiminy Glick and John McEnroe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rK_1xGp7cg. (55 seconds into video)

"You had these temper tantrums...was this a publicists idea or do you really have mental problems?" ...Jiminy Glick to the Great John McEnroe



If you think Novak Djokovic is straddling that line...do a reality check. This guy is so in control for the moment it isn't funny. He has been over the course of 19 major tournament wins not to mention the various and sundry that go along with it. Not to mention the millions and millions of dollars to boot. He is in control. As for his little demonstrations in the moment of match play...it is just as much spectacle and for show as it is due to his being "annoyed" or "frustrated". Is he showing some wear and tear around the edges? It could be. Are cracks starting to manifest themselves in the veneer of his public personna and the shield that protects him from his image? That could very well be.

Every human being is faced with a lifelong balancing act, trying to manage their dysfunction. Let's face it. That is one thing we ALL have in common. Novak is no exception. But he has been masterful beyond belief to put it mildly. Some of these Houdini acts that he has performed his entire career. These escape acts. This is a huge part of his brilliance. His shield. The frustration and the annoyance are symptoms of the what the future holds for him...that no human being can escape. There has been a toll of course. He has been around the world umpteen times performing his act for so many years. How many years ago did I start that thread...in 2011.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...kovic-meteoric

That's ten years he has been straddling the line. Dominance. He is the destroyer. He isn't having any problems containing. He is just using them a bit more liberally.


https://www.oann.com/tennis-osaka-fe...ude-to-tennis/

The above is a tennis player that is exhibiting some obvious mental health problems. One of them is called a lack of reality based experience. Novak has managed that one like a maestro. This one struggles answering benign questions from idiots in the cesspool...I mean press pool.

As always, thought provoking. So is he in total control or losing control. Only he and his team know. I guess my view is that stability is the exception and somehow the ATP tour has created this very stable system relative to almost every other era. Or maybe the world of today with science, social media and an advanced culture has created the conditions were someone can play at a very high level for such a long time.

Maybe I'm on the fence here. I keep looking for signs that Djokovic is slipping either physically or mentally. He is clearly fixated on the single season GS and 20 majors. It seems like either way it is a huge milestone. He will cement his legacy in tennis if he wins the US Open. It's almost feels like the last great challenge of his career.

If he wins the US Open, what is left for him to do?

[stotty]

Maybe I'm on the fence here. I keep looking for signs that Djokovic is slipping either physically or mentally. He is clearly fixated on the single season GS and 20 majors. It seems like either way it is a huge milestone. He will cement his legacy in tennis if he wins the US Open. It's almost feels like the last great challenge of his career.

If he wins the US Open, what is left for him to do?

You're right, of course. Novak has to be feeling it and, as stroke as pointed out a few times, he has a strange way of coping with pressure...he leaks here and there. But it's understandable. He's trying to do something no one else has done in over 50 years, and when you think of all those amazing players who have preceded Novak and never got near a GS, it's going to make the achievement all that much sweeter.

For me, he has to do it right here and right now. Players will be hot on his heels soon and winning a slam aged 35 or over has got to be incredible tough. But, yes, the pressure has to be enormous.

[don_budge]

Maybe I'm on the fence here. I keep looking for signs that Djokovic is slipping either physically or mentally. He is clearly fixated on the single season GS and 20 majors. It seems like either way it is a huge milestone. He will cement his legacy in tennis if he wins the US Open. It's almost feels like the last great challenge of his career.

If he wins the US Open, what is left for him to do?

As it stands now the old guard are dropping like flies. First Murray, then Federer. Now Nadal. "The Big Four" now is reduced to Novak Djokovic. Nobody has demonstrated the capability to take him down when the chips are on the table. He has to be odds on favourite to win the U. S. Open before they even crack a can of balls. Notice that he isn't playing the warm up events at the French, Wimbledon or the U. S. Open. He doesn't have to. He has seen that "course" a bunch of times. He knows the lay of the land. All he has to do is show up and get acclimated and then start to roll the dice.

Novak is 34 years old. There is no obvious signs of decline yet. Nothing obvious. For sure there must be but he is doing a great job of disguising them. This is what he does. Disguise. Guile. This guy has so much experience under his belt. Let's just say for no particular reason that he has two more years left to contend for Grand Slams. Who is going to contest him for them? But surely someone will emerge sooner or later. It is rather strange that nobody has really emerged yet. Tsitsipas, Zverev, Medvedev and the rest. Sooner or later. The question is when.

The Open is huge for Novak. This much we know. The rest is speculative. Novak is going to pick and choose for the rest of his career. He's been watching Federer, Nadal and Murray and sees how they have ground to a halt. Djokovic is on cruise control. Nadal has zero chance at the French next year. He is toast. It's hard to believe the Open is on our radar. It seems only like yesterday. Speaking of which...Dominic Thiem is another contender who has slipped off the radar screen. Djokovic knows that the key to everything is to stay healthy and injury free.

[jimlosaltos]

As it stands now the old guard are dropping like flies. First Murray, then Federer. Now Nadal. "The Big Four" now is reduced to Novak Djokovic. Nobody has demonstrated the capability to take him down when the chips are on the table. He has to be odds on favourite to win the U. S. Open before they even crack a can of balls. Notice that he isn't playing the warm up events at the French, Wimbledon or the U. S. Open. He doesn't have to. He has seen that "course" a bunch of times. He knows the lay of the land. All he has to do is show up and get acclimated and then start to roll the dice.

Novak is 34 years old. There is no obvious signs of decline yet. Nothing obvious. For sure there must be but he is doing a great job of disguising them. This is what he does. Disguise. Guile. This guy has so much experience under his belt. Let's just say for no particular reason that he has two more years left to contend for Grand Slams. Who is going to contest him for them? But surely someone will emerge sooner or later. It is rather strange that nobody has really emerged yet. Tsitsipas, Zverev, Medvedev and the rest. Sooner or later. The question is when.

The Open is huge for Novak. This much we know. The rest is speculative. Novak is going to pick and choose for the rest of his career. He's been watching Federer, Nadal and Murray and sees how they have ground to a halt. Djokovic is on cruise control. Nadal has zero chance at the French next year. He is toast. It's hard to believe the Open is on our radar. It seems only like yesterday. Speaking of which...Dominic Thiem is another contender who has slipped off the radar screen. Djokovic knows that the key to everything is to stay healthy and injury free.

Not sure about the wear and tear not showing. Djokovic said the reason he stiffed his doubles partner, dropping out of the Olympics was: "I played under medicines, unbelievable pain and exhaustion.''

Now, some will speculate Novak was fibbing to counter criticism of yet another WD. I can't tell. His serve speed did seem to plummet in later round match I watched.

As for Nadal not having a chance at Roland Garros 2021, I wouldn't count him out. Last year he annihilated Djokovic in one of the most dominant performances I've seen in a 'Slam final. This year, Nadal was seriously injured. But it is an injury he has recovered from before and -- unlike Fed's presumed meniscus -- it can heal organically.

To be clear, I'm not predicting anything. Just saying there are variables I don't believe are known on the outside.

Frankly, I'm more worried at Dominic Thiem's comeback in 2022 than Nadal's. That injury is frighteningly like what ended Del Potro's possible run to number one in the world.

[don_budge]

Not sure about the wear and tear not showing. Djokovic said the reason he stiffed his doubles partner, dropping out of the Olympics was: "I played under medicines, unbelievable pain and exhaustion.''

Now, some will speculate Novak was fibbing to counter criticism of yet another WD. I can't tell. His serve speed did seem to plummet in later round match I watched.

As for Nadal not having a chance at Roland Garros 2021, I wouldn't count him out. Last year he annihilated Djokovic in one of the most dominant performances I've seen in a 'Slam final. This year, Nadal was seriously injured. But it is an injury he has recovered from before and -- unlike Fed's presumed meniscus -- it can heal organically.

To be clear, I'm not predicting anything. Just saying there are variables I don't believe are known on the outside.

Frankly, I'm more worried at Dominic Thiem's comeback in 2022 than Nadal's. That injury is frighteningly like what ended Del Potro's possible run to number one in the world.

Good points jimlosaltos. I hadn't heard that Novak Djokovic dropped out of the doubles but that doesn't surprise me for a number of reasons. I wrote at length somewhere in this thread how I don't believe that tennis is in the true spirit of once upon a time was the "Spirit of the Olympics". Olympics is such a lofty word...at least it used to be. After Mt. Olympus? We were talking Godly deeds. But doubles in tennis for Novak? Hardly meaningful if he was on meds, pain and exhaustion. I don't doubt that either. He clearly did not want to be there. But his brand probably dictated that he should somehow and to keep up the image of Olympic standards...someone had to be there but nobody wanted to be. Federer, Nadal and most anyone of any standing felt the same way I do...tennis is not Olympic material. Tennis players are so self oriented...there was nothing to win except a meaningless gold medal. It isn't ATP sanctioned...these guys are professionals. It is an exhibition of sorts...one notch below the Laver Cup I would think.

Furthermore...Novak has been around the world umpteen times so there is wear and tear. This is a fact. But the slippery slope of trying to decipher what Novak says and what he does into where exactly he is standing at any given moment...good luck with that. Ask Stefanos Tsitsipas. Ask Lorenzo Mussetti. Ask Fafa Nadal. Nobody seems to know. Where's Novak?

Of course Nadal winning the French is within the realm of possibilities. His injury doesn't appear to be life threatening. I would speculate that normal decline in an athlete is more the ghost haunting Nadal at the moment. He appears to be losing a couple of the things that made him the formidable nemesis he is. Not to mention his hair. Juan Martin Del Potro, Robin S?derling, Dominic Thiem, Andy Murray and now Roger Federer. So many names have disappeared. Guys like Thomas Berdych. There is no escaping it. But the level at Novak's stratospheric level is becoming quite thin. The list of possibilities is quite short if Novak is "managing" all of his "wear and tear" and his "dysfunction" as I like to say. He may just have a couple more years to contend and that was what motivated my last post if I remember correctly. arturohernandez said something about his legacy depending upon the coming U. S. Open. I think we can project him down the line a bit further than that. Although the Open would certainly cement his brand...a Grand Slam at this stage of his career.

Novak is quite an enigma. A riddle wrapped in a mystery. We will have to wait and see how it plays out and how he plays his hand. I suspect that he is far from through. He has been a master at taking care of his body and Lord knows what he is taking to keep up his physique...not to mention his mental acumen. He has the best stuff that is for sure. But the rest of the rest are waning and the wannabes have not gotten into his head yet. Tsitsipas and Zverev appear to be closing in. It is only a matter of time to be sure. That is a thing that I know.

To be ultra clear...I am not predicting anything either. I'm just thinking out loud...online.