U.S. No Olympic Medal in Tennis for 1st Time in 101 years

[jimlosaltos]

More on the state of American, pro tennis. "U.S. LEAVES TOKYO WITHOUT AN OLYMPIC TENNIS MEDAL FOR FIRST TIME IN 101 YEARS"

For those counting at home, that's over a century, and "The last time the U.S. was without a tennis player on the Olympic podium came in 1920, when there were no Americans entered in Antwerp"

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/usa-tokyo-without-olympic-tennis-medal-first-101-years-daniell-venus-new-zealand

[arturohernandez]

I wonder if it is economics. Even Mike Agassi says that tennis is too expensive and too hard to make it. Much better chance in Baseball.

The best hope is in women's tennis were there is a lot less competition at the pro level in other sports.

[jimlosaltos]

I wonder if it is economics. Even Mike Agassi says that tennis is too expensive and too hard to make it. Much better chance in Baseball.

The best hope is in women's tennis were there is a lot less competition at the pro level in other sports.

Suspect there are a lot of reasons. In Europe, men's tennis has to compete with soccer, the highest paid sport by far, yet Europeans dominate men's tennis. So, I'm not sure it is just about money.

As you point out, the economics flip for women's tennis, where WTA tennis is the highest paid women's sport. Yet U.S. still lags there.

That Naomi Osaka was rejected for the U.S. development programs might hint at something.

[stotty]

Is the system to blame or is it a lack of players with world-class potential? Does the system really produce players or is it mostly about the player (their intrinsic qualities), and if it is about the player, then is participation lower in the US than it once was?

With a population the size of America, you'd think you could get an awful lot of people playing, and players with great qualities would eventually crop up. Good coaching could then play its part in player development.

Some smaller countries do awfully well at tennis, but participation is often high in relation to their population.

I think also if you look at Novak and all the people that have been hired and fired in his development, you realise that all his fitness, speed, and stretchiness have all been worked on by experts in a given field. Years ago, when Novak was being outlasted by Nadal on clay, he switched fitness trainers to combat that fitness deficit, and it worked. Tennis has become a multi-personnel sport. A tennis coach by himself just ain't enough.

[johnyandell]

Naomi was rejected?

[jimlosaltos]

Naomi was rejected?

Yup. Chris Evert said (from memory) Osaka was very athletic but didn't have a good enough game then.

[johnyandell]

Uh isn't that what development is for?

[doctorhl]

Any U.S. collegiate tennis coaches want to weigh in on the university system and the NCAA, if any, in this drought?

[don_budge]

That Naomi Osaka was rejected for the U.S. development programs might hint at something.

Hint? Let me put to you gently...the U. S. development programs has ground the talent pool into the ground and destroyed the grass roots initiatives that made the nation's tennis program the envy of all the world for many decades. I suspect that the same is true in Australia and England as well.

Back the the 1960's and 1970's most of the "development" programs were essentially "Mom and Pop" varieties. For instance in my neck of the woods in Southeastern Michigan or more precisely the Metro Detroit area there were a number of local coaches that had high level visibility that turned out participating tournament players in the area year after year. There was a fellow named Vic Petrula who unofficially ran a program out of a place called Rouge Park. His program turned out many a varsity college tennis players for years. There was Jean Hoxie who was very well known in tennis circles that operated out of a rather low econonic neighbourhood that turned out perennial state high school champions and many high level college performers. My own coach Sherman Collins was very well know and respected in tennis circles in the MidWest as he coached junior college tennis at Henry Ford Community College. Many of his players went on to play at universities as I did.

But as tennis metaphors life...think of it this way. All of the small shops and hardwares stores are gone. Local drug stores are now national chains. Wal Mart and Kmart. They are dying now in place of CostCo and other huge monstrosities. The local tennis programs fed into the local tournaments. It was like a bunch of gangs meeting to compete. It was a tournament every weekend locally and it was easy to fill a 64 person draw for 16 and 18 and under events. The same was true for the men's singles tournaments. But you see...this was all happening before the money polluted the game. The idea was born that a fellow like Patrick McEnroe was competent to head the national initiative to develop a tennis program. So much was bequeathed to Nick "Bowl of Cherries" down in Bradenton, Florida. The Title 9 initiative also dried up many of the college programs for the guys. This was like a minor league tennis system that was harvested every year when players decided to turn professional. It gave other players a chance to continue to train their games for four years after high school on scholarships and grants.

There is not mystery as to what happened to American tennis. I have been outrageously claiming for years that the coaching was highjacked and wouldn't you know it...little old don_budge hit the nail on the coffin. When I think back to my high school days in the years from 1969-1972 I remember my good old high school tennis coach who also was in charge of the intramural sports at the junior high school. He could and did manage to recruit some good athletes into the tennis program. He knew and cooperated with Sherm Collins in this regard. So did the other two high schools in the area. That is reaching a rather large population. Not to mention that the family tennis in our area was huge and the social scene was very entertaining for families to participate in. This was all done without computers and cell phones by the way. I laugh sardonically at the nonsense younger people believe in these days...that modern times are so great.

There is no reviving what has been lost by the way. No artificial engineering of the structure of society is going to bring it back either. This notion of national development is just wind. The evidence is obvious. It didn't work. It isn't going to work. It was all image...just as Saint Nick and his darling little protege Andre Agassi said it was. "Image is Everything". What bullshit. There was no substance behind it. Nick didn't teach anybody anything. Essentially he know nothing about tennis. He was a flash in the pan. A phenomenon. That's all that was. Then nothing. Just as you can see. How many Americans in the top ten? Top hundred? Make America Great Again? Try it sometime and they will stab you in the back so many times you won't know what hit you.

hockeyscout knows what I am talking about. With all of his seemingly "crazy" and "offbeat" notions he has a better chance of producing something that any of your tennis programs on this forum probably do. Talent was farmed and developed when the player was at home and they did it locally. Nobody had to leave home and spend their life at an academy. Mother and father were home to continue grooming their children to be functional in society. That too is a lost concept...the family. Disappearing as quickly as that can be engineered too.

American tennis is not coming back in any meaningful way when America was Great. When 25% of the players in the top one hundred were Americans. You could recognise them by their university affiliation. Nowadays you don't hear of a players college background. Rarely if ever. Yep...it was hijacked for sure. But I could be wrong about all of this. I just could be. I doubt it though. The writing is on the wall.

[doctorhl]

Hint? Let me put to you gently...the U. S. development programs has ground the talent pool into the ground and destroyed the grass roots initiatives that made the nation's tennis program the envy of all the world for many decades. I suspect that the same is true in Australia and England as well.

Back the the 1960's and 1970's most of the "development" programs were essentially "Mom and Pop" varieties. For instance in my neck of the woods in Southeastern Michigan or more precisely the Metro Detroit area there were a number of local coaches that had high level visibility that turned out participating tournament players in the area year after year. There was a fellow named Vic Petrula who unofficially ran a program out of a place called Rouge Park. His program turned out many a varsity college tennis players for years. There was Jean Hoxie who was very well known in tennis circles that operated out of a rather low econonic neighbourhood that turned out perennial state high school champions and many high level college performers. My own coach Sherman Collins was very well know and respected in tennis circles in the MidWest as he coached junior college tennis at Henry Ford Community College. Many of his players went on to play at universities as I did.

But as tennis metaphors life...think of it this way. All of the small shops and hardwares stores are gone. Local drug stores are now national chains. Wal Mart and Kmart. They are dying now in place of CostCo and other huge monstrosities. The local tennis programs fed into the local tournaments. It was like a bunch of gangs meeting to compete. It was a tournament every weekend locally and it was easy to fill a 64 person draw for 16 and 18 and under events. The same was true for the men's singles tournaments. But you see...this was all happening before the money polluted the game. The idea was born that a fellow like Patrick McEnroe was competent to head the national initiative to develop a tennis program. So much was bequeathed to Nick "Bowl of Cherries" down in Bradenton, Florida. The Title 9 initiative also dried up many of the college programs for the guys. This was like a minor league tennis system that was harvested every year when players decided to turn professional. It gave other players a chance to continue to train their games for four years after high school on scholarships and grants.

There is not mystery as to what happened to American tennis. I have been outrageously claiming for years that the coaching was highjacked and wouldn't you know it...little old don_budge hit the nail on the coffin. When I think back to my high school days in the years from 1969-1972 I remember my good old high school tennis coach who also was in charge of the intramural sports at the junior high school. He could and did manage to recruit some good athletes into the tennis program. He knew and cooperated with Sherm Collins in this regard. So did the other two high schools in the area. That is reaching a rather large population. Not to mention that the family tennis in our area was huge and the social scene was very entertaining for families to participate in. This was all done without computers and cell phones by the way. I laugh sardonically at the nonsense younger people believe in these days...that modern times are so great.

There is no reviving what has been lost by the way. No artificial engineering of the structure of society is going to bring it back either. This notion of national development is just wind. The evidence is obvious. It didn't work. It isn't going to work. It was all image...just as Saint Nick and his darling little protege Andre Agassi said it was. "Image is Everything". What bullshit. There was no substance behind it. Nick didn't teach anybody anything. Essentially he know nothing about tennis. He was a flash in the pan. A phenomenon. That's all that was. Then nothing. Just as you can see. How many Americans in the top ten? Top hundred? Make America Great Again? Try it sometime and they will stab you in the back so many times you won't know what hit you.

hockeyscout knows what I am talking about. With all of his seemingly "crazy" and "offbeat" notions he has a better chance of producing something that any of your tennis programs on this forum probably do. Talent was farmed and developed when the player was at home and they did it locally. Nobody had to leave home and spend their life at an academy. Mother and father were home to continue grooming their children to be functional in society. That too is a lost concept...the family. Disappearing as quickly as that can be engineered too.

American tennis is not coming back in any meaningful way when America was Great. When 25% of the players in the top one hundred were Americans. You could recognise them by their university affiliation. Nowadays you don't hear of a players college background. Rarely if ever. Yep...it was hijacked for sure. But I could be wrong about all of this. I just could be. I doubt it though. The writing is on the wall.

DB ‘s viewpoint pretty much sums up my observations!

[arturohernandez]

DB ‘s viewpoint pretty much sums up my observations!

I think Robert Landsdorp would agree.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/sports/playmagazine/04play-talent.html

"You don't need a fancy academy," he said. "You need fundamentals and discipline, and in this country nobody gives a damn about fundamentals and discipline." Lansdorp also mentioned that he'd visited Spartak last year to teach a clinic. "It was a pretty different place," he said. "But that Larisa, she sure knows her stuff."

[jimlosaltos]

Uh isn't that what development is for?

That's how it struck me. My concept of their role is to scout for, find and develop talent.
But their attitude toward Osaka makes me wonder if their compensation motivates them to reduce their risk. That is, if they make sure to turn out a batch of decent players, they'll keep their gig. If they look for a home run and strikeout, they run the risk of looking bad.

Just a guess, but fits this instance it seems.

[don_budge]

That's how it struck me. My concept of their role is to scout for, find and develop talent.
But their attitude toward Osaka makes me wonder if their compensation motivates them to reduce their risk. That is, if they make sure to turn out a batch of decent players, they'll keep their gig. If they look for a home run and strikeout, they run the risk of looking bad.

Just a guess, but fits this instance it seems.

You cannot bite the hand that feeds you.

[don_budge]

I think Robert Landsdorp would agree.

You gotta love the Robert! Old school through and through. You can connect the dots backwards from Robert Landsdorp straight to Harry Hopman. He may not be for everybody. For sure...he isn't trying to be.

[don_budge]

Any U.S. collegiate tennis coaches want to weigh in on the university system and the NCAA, if any, in this drought?

DB ‘s viewpoint pretty much sums up my observations!

Your provocative thoughts and questions are just that. Provoking thought.