2021 Wimbledon Championships...ATP 2000...London, England

[glacierguy]

I snatched half an hour to watch a bit of Murray (I'm making hay while the sun is shining). My main observation was that the grass on centre court is slow and bouncy. Players can still lose their footing on it, but that's the only difference from a hard court.

I can still remember the beautiful cool feeling of grass on the feet, even on a hot summer's day.

PS The Queens Club courts looked better (faster)

PPS I really am making hay

[stroke]

Murray won 9 of 12 net points in 4 sets on a grass court and won. That’s stupid! It is ridiculous they changed the grass allowing tactics like these to succeed at Wimbledon. The points look so similar to the ones a couple of weeks back at the French Open. Why they had to dumb it down for longer points to look like everything else for the casual tennis fans. I miss the art of serving and volleying, the value and pressure of returning low at the feet, and the magical volleys and passing shots on the 3rd and 4th shots of each point. It’s a shame! I grew up watching a different Wimbledon and I miss it! Hopefully someone will try and bully Novak by serving and volleying as a primary tactic. I doubt it’ll happen but I can hope to see it!

Pierre Hughes Herbert

[jimlosaltos]

Sebi Korda with a huge win over the Demon! Won majority of points on second serve against a backboard. Net 33/46 ! Great signs.

For your amusement, Sebi appears to be the top American tennis hope, with more points on the calendar year than any American man, but as one wag put it, he might be the lowest ranked athlete is his own family. Both his sisters are on the Olympic golf team, one the top ranked woman in the world, Dad has a (disputed) 'Slam title. Mother, Regina played in Olympics for Czech.

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[stroke]

Great post. No doubt a very good win for S?bastien.

[stroke]

Nick has added a "sleeve" tatto to his clueless too cool for school act. He just keeps on giving. You can't make this stuff up. Somehow, I am not shocked.

[stotty]

Roger lacked confidence in virtually his entire game today. Even his forehand looked tentative and out of sorts. Mannarino is a tricky player but one who Roger would normally beat in his sleep. He was fortunate Mannarino had to concede because the outcome was far from certain. I only watched the last three sets but it was painful to watch and he has made little progress since losing to FAA in Halle. The hope is might gain in confidence as he goes through the rounds...if he goes through the rounds.

And out goes Serena in round one. The girls gets heavier every time I watch her play...reminds me of Humpty Dumpty.

The weather is heavy and damp over here and so you will see lots of slipping here and there until the grass browns up a bit more.

It is not true the grass is that much slower (if any slower) than it was. It's more the bounce is higher than it was. Players these days have no problem with 'fast', what they have a problem with is 'low' and fast. Were the bounces lower (as they once were), the modern player might have problems, but they aren't. And make no mistake, despite their extreme grips, a lot a players can deal quite handily with low balls. What players have most trouble with is volleying itself. Virtually all today's players are mediocre at the net (at best) and most are positively awful if there is any kind of pressure attached to sticking a volley away. It's a sad state of affairs but it won't change unless the court changes, but what you don't want is courts as quick as the Goran/Sampras era, which was the most boring grass court tennis imaginable.

I don't have any faith in this year's Wimbledon being a good one. Roger survived by courtesy of a default, Tsitsipas has gone for a Burton, and Medvedev was looking fairly ropey last I looked. Let's hope tomorrow is another day and things improve.

[stroke]

Serena may end up as a spokesmodel for the "new" repackaged rebranded Victoria Secret Angels.

[glacierguy]

We need some tech-inclined guy to trawl through the TV archive and give us the ratio of speed after bounce : speed before bounce and determine if grass courts now are faster or slower. For me, they're obviously slower.

Anyone remember the green wood courts at Lilleshall, UK. Now they were fast.

[stotty]

We need some tech-inclined guy to trawl through the TV archive and give us the ratio of speed after bounce : speed before bounce and determine if grass courts now are faster or slower. For me, they're obviously slower.

Anyone remember the green wood courts at Lilleshall, UK. Now they were fast.

Yes, wood is super quick. I think the surface no longer exists anywhere that I know of. I once saw the U18 Boy's national event played on indoor wood as they were rained off at Queen's club where the final was being played. Even with Dunlop Maxply rackets there were no rallies on it.

The grass courts will be a tad quicker by virtue the bounce is lower but the groundsman assures folk it's the higher bounce that is the culprit...aided by modern technology (powerful rackets and strings). I believe the height of the grass is also a factor. Just taking off a millimetre of the height can make a difference. It's really hard to judge the speed of the grass (comparative to other eras) because the game is so fast these days. But I can tell you with certainty it is a higher bounce because I have been standing there every year for over 40 years.

But can we not blame the courts, please...blame the volleyers.

[stroke]

The coolest guy in the tournament has run into a 1st round a young professional tennis player that takes his job very seriously.

[jimlosaltos]

We need some tech-inclined guy to trawl through the TV archive and give us the ratio of speed after bounce : speed before bounce and determine if grass courts now are faster or slower. For me, they're obviously slower.

Anyone remember the green wood courts at Lilleshall, UK. Now they were fast.

Here you go. BBC took two, identical 126 MPH serves by Fed at Wimbledon 2003 and 2008. In 2008 the ball was 18% slower after bounce, and 10 inches higher -- right in the returners' wheel house. I don't have anything more recent but the AELTC people claim they haven't changed things since. Then, there are also the balls ... slow Slazengers.

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[stotty]

Nice find, Jim. Trust you to come up with something concrete. Interesting because by 2003 the courts had been slowed by then already so maybe they tweaked the court some more or maybe the grass was a millimetre higher in 2008. I know one year they experimented with keeping the grass a little longer.

It may be a little inconclusive using one snapshot of events because grass is a living surface and 2003 might have been a drier, browner surface. The bounce gets higher and faster (not lower and faster) as the tournament goes on and the courts dry out and brown up. Another interesting factor is the entire court does not wear and brown up as it used to because the players aren't venturing there much, so large parts of the court remains kind of lush and slower.

The game has gotten faster but it needn't be a barrier to approaching the net. So many times players could benefit from sneaking in and dispatching volleys, but they don't do it.

[glacierguy]

Thanks jimlosaltos, that's exactly what I was talking about. Although I was thinking more like 1980 vs 2020 because I'm so old! But as soon as you think about trying to compare eras, you realise, as Stotty points out, that the incoming ball is totally different with modern equipment, so you wouldn't be comparing like with like.

That BBC comparison is still pretty good though.

[don_budge]

The coolest guy in the tournament has run into a 1st round a young professional tennis player that takes his job very seriously.

Nick Kyrgios just finished off Ugo Humbert 9-7 in the fifth set...a match played over two days. Excellent match...anytime Kyrgios keeps his head in the game it can be interesting. Nick did his own rendition of "lockdown" tennis. Humbert just couldn't touch his serve. Nick played it nonchalant until 7-all when he got down to business and broke Humbert. Kyrgios is one of the more compelling character on the tour and often in not a good way. This was his good side...no signs of anything untoward from 3-3 in the fifth until the end. He took a nasty slip just as Mannarino did against Federer yesterday. This is a real hazard on grass if you insist on playing it on the baseline. Going forwards behind the serve you don't see these kinds of falls.

[stroke]

Nick did what he is capable of. He along with Raonic the best sub 6'10" serve in tennis. He could beat anyone, but I do think he was fortunate to get the match called at 3-3 in the 5th yesterday, but that is tennis. Sometimes things go your way.