2021 Wimbledon Championships...ATP 2000...London, England

[glacierguy]

I wonder who, on Djokovic's team, came up with the tactic of powder-puff second serves? They continue to work into the 4th set - about 75mph, and hardly any have been put away by Berrettini, incredible.

[jthb1021]

Why doesn’t he look to run around the bh on the second serve? He’d better try something now down a break in the fourth.

[stroke]

The Boa Constrictor was really squeezing that 4th set. Well done. #20.

[stotty]

Why doesn’t he look to run around the bh on the second serve? He’d better try something now down a break in the fourth.

No idea. He never did it from start to finish. Novak was rolling in second serves at 80mph and below. Roger would have been all over those. But Novak only ever does what he has to so he continued to do it and get away with it.

I wonder who, on Djokovic's team, came up with the tactic of powder-puff second serves? They continue to work into the 4th set - about 75mph, and hardly any have been put away by Berrettini, incredible.

Well noted. That was Novak's most conservative slam victory to date by far. Every round he was cautious and he did only what he had to to win each match. Mind-boggling that Berrettini never ran round those serves to knock them for six. That said, Berri's forehand never really fired consistently all afternoon and it broke down badly at times and at key moments.

The Boa Constrictor was really squeezing that 4th set. Well done. #20.

Yep, the double break to win the match said it all. He gradually unpicked Berri in the fourth and the set became a foregone conclusion. Boa Constrictor is an apt description.

[arturohernandez]

I have to say that this Djokovic run has finally made me admire his ability. He has become an all court player who is willing to come forward when necessary. He picks apart his opponent and just stays steady until the other player's level drops. Berrettini threw everything at him. I think the only minor hiccup was not attacking the second serve. But I am sure that Djokovic would have served wide to the forehand if he ran around a couple of those.

I have seen all kinds of heirs apparent but not one who is within the big 3 mold. Everyone keeps touting the new great tennis player that will come from Medvedev, Tsitsi, Zverev and now Berrettini. Sinner seems to be a rising star as well.

I still contend that winning GS is the domain of someone around 6 foot 1. Djokovic showed that being too tall exposes a player to problems with movement. Barty showed us a similar thing in the ladies final.

Sampras once said that tennis is all about what you can do on the run. Djokovic is just unmatched in his ability to do things on the run these days. It is just amazing that that Federer just two years ago took Djokovic to five sets and almost won the whole thing. With Federer fading fast and Nadal on his way out, I just don't see how Djokovic doesn't break their record.

I am sure that his number one focus is on winning the calendar slam. If he does, he will be the indisputable GOAT.

[stroke]

As far as the so called GOAT goes, the fat lady has sung. If one logically looks at at argument, at this point Roger is a clear #3. The Master's 1000 titles to me have to be integrated into to equation. Novak is beyond argument the clear winner there. He has won all 11 twice. No one else had even won all 11 once.. Stand alone there. He is tied with Nadal for total titles but he alone had won all of them. No one else has won all 11 even once.. He has a head to head career advantage over both Nadal and Roger. They are all tied right now on Majors. The GOAT is clear right now.

[stotty]

Djokovic is the best of the three and it's not even close in my book. Had it not being for Wimbledon being cancelled last year, hitting the ball woman in the throat at the US Open, and that business with the babysitter, Novak would be a couple of slams in front at least by now. If you lay the tennis timeline of the last 10 years on a table, you will see, outside of Nadal holding the fort at the FO, it's been a massacre.

[arturohernandez]

As far as the so called GOAT goes, the fat lady has sung. If one logically looks at at argument, at this point Roger is a clear #3. The Master's 1000 titles to me have to be integrated into to equation. Novak is beyond argument the clear winner there. He has won all 11. Stand alone there. He is tied with Nadal for total titles but he alone had won all of them. He has a head to head advantage over both Nadal and Roger. They are all tied right now on Majors. The GOAT is clear right now.

I still had a soft spot for Federer. So I was still holding out hope that Federer would win one last Wimbledon at such a late age that he would have at least one record that would never be broken.

At this point, the only one left is winning with the smallest racket head. Is there someplace in the record book for that?

[stroke]

We all love Fed. I think most all of us, if we could choose who we would in our dreams look like playing tennis, it would be Fed. No one ever has been, and probably no one ever will be, as easy on the eyes playing tennis.

[glacierguy]

When considering the GOAT question, a little thought experiment can help. Imagine someone comes along who can serve unreturnable 200mph every time, and can also hack a few groundstrokes. They're going to win every tournament. Would that make them the GOAT? Yes, but only by the narrowest definition - that of who wins most tournaments. They're effective at winning, but that's it. No-one wants to watch. No-one wants to pick up a tennis racquet and learn the game. Tennis dies. The tennis-killing GOAT.

[arturohernandez]

When considering the GOAT question, a little thought experiment can help. Imagine someone comes along who can serve unreturnable 200mph every time, and can also hack a few groundstrokes. They're going to win every tournament. Would that make them the GOAT? Yes, but only by the narrowest definition - that of who wins most tournaments. They're effective at winning, but that's it. No-one wants to watch. No-one wants to pick up a tennis racquet and learn the game. Tennis dies. The tennis-killing GOAT.

I think it has to do with technology. Tennis should have put a limit on technology, the way that baseball did. Maybe not wood but they could have regulated racket head size and strings better. Right now they need to create at least one major with very fast conditions like in the 90's. They also need to make clay and grass different.

The tennis-killing GOAT had a lot of help in killing tennis when the powers that be took away the Sampras option. Sampras never won the French and barely won the Australian Open.

I think on the old grass with the old conditions, Sampras would have killed someone who played like Djokovic. Even at the US Open.

Djokovic exists as an option because tennis regulations allowed him to exist.

Now everyone plays with two hands, everyone stays back, everyone is a carbon copy.

I think Djokovic is just a symptom not the disease. The disease is homogenization where everyone plays the same because of the conditions.

Hardly any one handed backhands and no S&V tennis. It is tennis killing and our new GOAT may be the result of that.

Given the current conditions, Djokovic is a master. At some point he has to get his due for being perfectly suited for today's game.

I agree that today's game is boring but it's not really Djokovic's fault.

So, what do you guys say, is Novak the tennis-killing goat as glacier guy says?

[glacierguy]

I didn't mean to equate Djokovic with the tennis-killer, just to point out that there are other things to consider. In my opinion, an imaginary 200mph server shouldn't be considered the GOAT, from which it follows that, in my case, I would want to consider other subjective factors. So if we allow subjective factors, we can all argue 'til the cows come home about who is the best, and that's fine, because there's no clear answer. I just don't agree with the line 'so-and-so has won most, so is definitely the GOAT'.

[johnyandell]

Do we really need a goat?

[arturohernandez]

Arturo,
The biggest thing for Golubic is understanding how effective and useful it is. Backswings can be edited and shortened, but the grasp of tactical advantages and variety can not. Viktorija lost to a player (Pliskova) that was playing on another level. Full credit to her. But for a player to understand the tools they have and utilize them is the key.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting
www.setsconsult.org

I just pulled this quote of yours out today when my daughter complained that her one hander is not as consistent as her forehand. She says it is flat and doesn't go deep. There is technical stuff she still needs to develop with regard to hitting up and through and not coming across as much.

I am not so worried about that because I myself was able to learn to hit up more and not across as much. Once I started doing that, then the consistency went way up.

I just told her the way you were thinking. She has so many different backhands she can hit. She has not grasped that the variety is huge bonus. She just sees a very consistent two hander and thinks her backhand should be like a two hander.

I told her that even with just slice all she needs to do is neutralize on the backhand. I also told her it will never be as good as her forehand. So at least she has clarity on what is her weapon and what her game plan should be which is to setup her forehand to put pressure on her opponent.

Any thoughts?

[don_budge]

2021 Wimbledon Championships...Roger Federer

Seriously...is this really the Wimbledon lineup?

https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/cu...edon/540/draws

There doesn't seem to be a single real bonafide grass court player besides Roger Federer in the draw. Thank God for Roger. This might just be his swan song as well. But even so...there is only one reason to get slightly interested in this tournament and it is all about Roger. I don't think his form is as bad as he has made it out to be. Hopefully the lawn at Wimbledon and the crowd and atmosphere will revive him. Inspire him. I could see him getting through his section of the draw to the round of 16...maybe even the quarters. But even by taking it one round at a time...he will keep it interesting as long as he is around. Who knows? He might just have one more surprise left in him. Just forget about the recent performances. They don't count for much if anything. Particularly the last match against Auger-Aliassime. He let it go after the first set. I want to believe that. Adrianno Mannarino is a really good first round opponent for him. Not to soft and not too strong. We'll get a finger on his pulse after this round. I saw Mannarino playing recently and he looked quite sharp against a favoured opponent. Actually it was Daniel Evans he played against and lost to.

The rest of it is just frightfully boring. Not a single volleyer in the bunch. Novak is the odds on favourite. A virtual lock. He is the wily cat in the field with all of his assets still at his disposal. He has reached an age where his experience is just about maximised and yet his physical skills and endurance have not been impaired. He played dead two rounds at the French and came roaring back as if nothing had happened. He put a real whipping on Nadal and made up his mind for him...about Wimbledon. If he couldn't beat Novak on the dirt he certainly doesn't have a snowball's chance in hades on the velcro...I mean lawn at Wimbledon. Nadal showing his true colours by the way. What a huge mistake to make a statue of him at Roland Garros. Suffice it to say that I will never return to that place again. Not to mention it is boring, boring...boring.

The only other point of interest other than Roger is good old Saint Nick. Nick Kyrgios. Which Nick is going to show? Has the time off given him time to think? Will he come back a changed man? This tournament could be his if he had his head on straight. The tournament is going to need a character like Nick to keep it awake as well. Otherwise it just could be four or five rounds of foreplay and Federer. Novak isn't going to cause any excitement at all. He will make his way through the fortnight without so much as a wakeup call. He could sleep walk to the finals. Unless someone gets hot and can see it through. But they will have to get the final nail in the coffin to make it stick. Otherwise this guy is slippery. He gives you the limp leg and then he is off to the finish line.

All eyes on Roger Federer. The preparation is all under his belt now. This guy knows how to prepare. Has he had sufficient time to do his homework? We are about to find out. Aren't we?

It was all about Roger. It doesn't matter that Novak Djokovic played Matteo Berrettini in the finals...gave him the first set then turned around and ran him around the court for the last three sets. No matter how you want to dress this one up...it was a stinker. The entire tournament was. Did Shapovalov provide just a little entertainment? Just a little hope? Were the announcers able to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse? Of course they couldn't. But they tried. Boy...how they tried. Each outdoing the other. Raising the ante every step of the way. The hyperbole. Novak's twentieth. Who give a damn anyways? The tennis sucked. The same as it did in Roland Garros some five years ago as I drank umpteen cups of French brew trying with all my might to stay awake for Novak beating Raonic in the quarterfinals. What a forgettable match that was. What a forgettable experience that was. On the other hand I will never forget the entire day of tennis that I witnessed at the 1984 U. S. Open tournament when I saw the men's semifinals and the ladies final all in the same day. It was a freebie too. The memory is worth a million dollars. A hundred million. John McEnroe vs. Jimmy Connors. Ivan Lendl vs. Pat Cash. Martina Navratilova vs. Chris Evert. Throw in John Newcombe vs. Stan Smith in the veteran's single semi's. Now that was tennis. Just slightly on the other side of Classic tennis. They all used oversized graphite racquets. This is where we landed.

It was all about Roger...and once he evaporated the air went out of the tournament. That was a strange tie-breaker he played. He rarely if ever loses a tie-breaker like that. He missed a swinging volley to start the demise. Just dumped it in the net. An ordinary volley would have done nicely. Maybe it was the knee. All he had to do was "a one and a two" close in on the net and punch it into the open court. I never did like the swinging volley much. What do they call it nowadays...a drive volley. Just like that...when you really needed a good solid volley and you elect for the unconventional. The fundamentally less sound. It backfires and blows up in your face. Then it was the sitter and Roger is slipping on the middle service line. I couldn't believe my eyes. It was like...what just happened? I couldn't comprehend it when I saw it until the replay showed it. He slipped...and whiffed. It was over. He may very well of hurt himself. He has withdrawn from the Olympics. Going back into rehab. Might as well call it a day. It's over...and it is ok. Everything is going to be alright.

Tennis will never be the same again. The last remaining link to the original game is now gone...if not officially gone. His match with Pete Sampras in the quarterfinals at the 2001 Wimbledon was the end of it. Pete passed the torch and it extinguished in Roger's keeping. What we have left is a Djokovic vs. Berrettini final that was just about as ugly as it was incongruent. It just didn't fit the bill at all. The wear of the courts was all on the baseline. What...no net play? No serve and volley? Not a bit. Much was made that Novak employed some random serve and volley. The powderpuff second serve. Ooh la la...the drop shot. What drivel. So sleepy. I saw a guy in the audience yawning. I know exactly how he felt. It never felt like that to me when Roger was playing. When he was done there were mental gymnastics to be played. No wonder Novak doesn't get the love he desires. He doesn't have any charisma. It's not that he is a bad guy but there isn't anything about him that commands your attention. Just like his tennis game. He can go away for a set and a half and you would never miss him. Two hours later he is still out there playing. Just doing his thing. The Djokovic Lockdown. It is as effective as it is boring.

Do we really need a goat?

Ah yes...the inevitable question. The Greatest Of All Time. Novak Djokovic? Hardly. I swear that the most boring conversation ever is the "Greatest Of All Time" conversation. Just for an eye opener...these guys are all first round cat food at a "real" Wimbledon. Slick grass and wooden racquets. A thing of the past for sure. But still relevant as forever in the GOAT conversation. The big racquet creates such an illusion. Roger Federer himself proved this when he switched equipment. He reeled off seven straight wins against a guy he struggled to beat once. The improvement in his backhand was so glaring he had everyone oohing and ahhing. Nobody seemed to notice that his entire game benefited. Every single facet was better by a factor of 11% which was coincidentally the increase in real estate in his equipment. It is all an illusion. The GOAT conversation is such an egotistical exercise... modern man imagining that he is superior to the man of the past. But go ahead. It's fitting here on the forum. As Roger slides off into the "End of the Night". I never watched the final. Or the semifinals for that matter. I think I caught a bit of the first set of the final. I left before Novak gifted it to Berrettini. That is getting old too. Old Limp Leg. I think I will give it a rest.

This game is bigger than any one individual. That goes for Roger Federer too. Double for Novak Djokovic. The game was bigger than any0 one individual. But that old game is gone forever too. There is no comparison between the old game and the new game. The new game looks suspiciously weak and thin in depth to me. But then again so many are fooled by the illusion. I can admire the athleticism and the ability. But what I cannot understand is why they wanted to take the art and creativity out of the game. It's all engineering now. Right down to calling the lines. It used to be such an artistic endeavour. It wasn't lacking in science either. Philosophy as well. The rituals almost made it a holy thing. So much for tennis. When I would rather go play golf by myself than watch the finals at Wimbledon it tells me something. Not that it should make any difference to you. You can have it. The GOAT conversation too. Do we really need a GOAT? I sure don't. I guess I'm different that you guys. Which is ok too. In my book.