Brian Gordon's teachings are spreading

[seano]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPS5FYfHIel/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

[glacierguy]

That's strange. When my legs push, I'm letting my shoulder externally rotate, and not thinking about accelerating my hand at all. But I don't earn the big bucks...

[johnyandell]

Brian told me he did a segment for 60 minutes extra or whatever it's called. Will post when it's available.

[doctorhl]

I think Pat didn’t know( or felt like the player didn’t need to know) that leg extension, external shoulder rotation, elbow extension, internal shoulder rotation, etc. all happen first in a split second sequence with the hand attached at the end of the chain. If you are a pro and can toss and sequence the chain correctly, it could “ feel” like your hand moves first. But that cue could be deadly if you are not correctly sequenced. Some players can’t process all the biomechanic feedback. Yandell has laboriously identified all the sequenced checkpoints. The trick is, once checkpoints are mastered, one must adapt to new time intervals between checkpoints( complicated with ball toss). A player must adapt to new “timing” which may severely challenge a person’s confidence. Language becomes crucial! John, what language would you use, or is there no room for a response without knowing more context?

[seano]

doctorhl -

I think Pat didn’t know( or felt like the player didn’t need to know) that leg extension, external shoulder rotation, elbow extension, internal shoulder rotation, etc. all happen first in a split second sequence with the hand attached at the end of the chain. If you are a pro and can toss and sequence the chain correctly, it could “ feel” like your hand moves first. But that cue could be deadly if you are not correctly sequenced. Some players can’t process all the biomechanic feedback.

Excellent points and couldnt agree more about your hand moving first discussion.

[don_budge]

I think Pat didn’t know( or felt like the player didn’t need to know) that leg extension, external shoulder rotation, elbow extension, internal shoulder rotation, etc. all happen first in a split second sequence with the hand attached at the end of the chain. If you are a pro and can toss and sequence the chain correctly, it could “ feel” like your hand moves first. But that cue could be deadly if you are not correctly sequenced. Some players can’t process all the biomechanic feedback. Yandell has laboriously identified all the sequenced checkpoints. The trick is, once checkpoints are mastered, one must adapt to new time intervals between checkpoints( complicated with ball toss). A player must adapt to new “timing” which may severely challenge a person’s confidence. Language becomes crucial! John, what language would you use, or is there no room for a response without knowing more context?

He's a typical modern day tennis coach. I see him in the Stefanos Tsitsipas box over and over for the past year or so. Not one little tiny modification to the service motion. This guy is a "celebrity tennis coach". Even the relationship he had with the player he is coaching in the video is questionable on ethical terms. At least according to media sources. I wouldn't put stock in anything he says. I've heard him a number of times commenting on Eurosport. It is surprising what can be accomplished with clever marketing without any real in depth knowledge about what is actually going on. This is the Euro version of Nick "Bowl of Cherries".

I had a dream that there was a poll on tennisplayer.net as to who was the most influential coach on the forum. Brian Gordon won hands down and I did not get a single solitary vote. I was a little disappointed but sucked it up and didn't show that it bothered me in the least. Kudos to Brian.

[stotty]

It's a cue and I don't see it as necessarily harmful. I doubt it will harm Serena's serve. It's a cue that might work with advanced players who have all their ducks in a row. A cue doesn't have to be related to technique. A cue is a way of creating a thought or a feeling a player might relate to to give them a better chance of executing what we want. Resourceful players often create their own cues (which are often better than the coach's as it their body not ours). In fact, the hope is the player might find their own cues with the coach's help.

I don't know Pat but he certainly likes to be the centre of attention. His goal, I feel, is to be more important/famous than the player, which is absurd, as coaches almost by definition should be the player's secret weapon in the background.

All over the internet I see coaches stealing ideas and repackaging them. You can't reinvent the wheel. It is what it is. Coaches should concentrate more on the fundamentals and let the bells and whistles take care of themselves. That part of the serve (discussed earlier in the thread) that takes under a tenth of a second to complete is hardly worth talking about as it only happens if the fundamentals are in place before it commences.

[stroke]

Pat coaches Serena in a high profile manner. That pretty much says it all.

[arturohernandez]

Pat coaches Serena in a high profile manner. That pretty much says it all.

I thought you guys were talking about Pat Dougherty, the serve doctor. I have always known him as Patrick since he is French.

Or better Patrick Moratoglou owner of the academy with his name on it.