Madrid Used Electronic Shot Review on Clay: Did It Blow a Call?

[jimlosaltos]

Many have been calling for electronic, shot-review on clay for some time. Ever one to experiment (remember blue clay?), Ion Tiriac's Madrid Open used Foxten, a rival to Hawkeye, for reviews on the main court at Madrid. Foxten brags that it doesn't simulate the impact point of balls, as Hawkeye does, because it has more cameras, some low, on the lines.

But it looks to me (and to Ash Barty) as if Foxten blew a challenge on a break point, overruling the linesperson to call the ball in, and giving the game to Sabalenka. In this first image, which I took from Tennis Channel Plus' broadcast, the ball appears to be above the line. Ash was looking down at the ball as it landed at her feet and immediately pointed at the mark right in front of her foot. Barty had been critical of several Foxten calls during the tournament, according to the announcers. How does it look to you?

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Here's the ball making a full divot at the point Barty immediately pointed to, well behind the baseline.

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Here is the ball at the moment the system first showed the "IN" message, timestamped x.143.

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I posted a video of the exchange and review here, if you're interested. What do you think, was it in or out? My amateur guess is that the combination of clay covering that section of the line, with Ash's light-colored sneaker behind the divot fooled the camera.

[stotty]

Not sure what to make of all that. The ball was certainly out. I have been to Wimbledon on windy days where I feel (and others I know feel the same) Hawkeye has made mistakes. I don't know where the cameras are mounted or if windage affects accuracy, but I have definitely seen the odd mistake here and there. I guess that could be due to the mounting of the cameras and whether they are correctly aligned.

On balance, Foxten/Hawkeye are a hell of a lot better than humans. Michael Stich would never have won Wimbledon had Hawkeye been around in his match against Volkov in 1991.

[jimlosaltos]

Not sure what to make of all that. The ball was certainly out. I have been to Wimbledon on windy days where I feel (and others I know feel the same) Hawkeye has made mistakes. I don't know where the cameras are mounted or if windage affects accuracy, but I have definitely seen the odd mistake here and there. I guess that could be due to the mounting of the cameras and whether they are correctly aligned.

On balance, Foxten/Hawkeye are a hell of a lot better than humans. Michael Stich would never have won Wimbledon had Hawkeye been around in his match against Volkov in 1991.

One difference in the systems is that with Hawkeye we have no idea whatsoever whether a call it makes is right or not. All Hawkeye shows is the computer simulation it generates for the impact of the ball. Foxten shows its "mark" plus the video. So, we can see and judge for ourselves in this case. I prefer this given both because there is no, independent audit/ reporting on the accuracy of Hawkeye, and it adds some reality as well as drama.

Separately, I strongly prefer using computers for review but NOT to call the lines. When I watched Milan, where ELC was used, it sucked the tension and drama out of the air. No dramatic moment on a key point with a close shot where you wait for the call, then will he/she challenge, what's the result. Just cold, mechanical Out next point.

Taking the human element out of pro tennis is a mistake IMHO. Baseball knows that. MLB can automate calling balls and strikes any time but it would be a mistake IMHO.

[stotty]

One difference in the systems is that with Hawkeye we have no idea whatsoever whether a call it makes is right or not. All Hawkeye shows is the computer simulation it generates for the impact of the ball. Foxten shows its "mark" plus the video. So, we can see and judge for ourselves in this case. I prefer this given both because there is no, independent audit/ reporting on the accuracy of Hawkeye, and it adds some reality as well as drama.

Separately, I strongly prefer using computers for review but NOT to call the lines. When I watched Milan, where ELC was used, it sucked the tension and drama out of the air. No dramatic moment on a key point with a close shot where you wait for the call, then will he/she challenge, what's the result. Just cold, mechanical Out next point.

Taking the human element out of pro tennis is a mistake IMHO. Baseball knows that. MLB can automate calling balls and strikes any time but it would be a mistake IMHO.

I agree with the drama and what it brings to the game. The bottomline though is Hawkeye has the final say once it's requested by a player. And no one questions it. Hawkeye's say is final.

[ChristopherWright]

I will not say that this is directly fair, but alas, it is so.