Tour Strokes: Kei Nishikori Serve

[johnyandell]

Would love to discuss my article, "Tour Strokes: Kei Nishikori Serve"

[klacr]

Max Miryni is now working with Kei as part of his team. I saw them a few weeks ago in Miami. Hopefully the Beast can help him. Tour coaches are not just not overly technical, they often have two deadly E's that prevent real significant growth. Ego and entitlement. They aren't willing to share their player or another coach's knowledge with their player without them taking full credit. They feel that the only person capable of influencing their player should be them.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

[seano]

John -

These technical articles are the one's that peak my interest and are full of translatable knowledge. I'm very aware of your previous article on Kei's serve and this is a great follow-up. Keep up the good work.

Sean

[stotty]

Max Miryni is now working with Kei as part of his team. I saw them a few weeks ago in Miami. Hopefully the Beast can help him. Tour coaches are not just not overly technical, they often have two deadly E's that prevent real significant growth. Ego and entitlement. They aren't willing to share their player or another coach's knowledge with their player without them taking full credit. They feel that the only person capable of influencing their player should be them.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

That isn't a scenario confined to tour coaches. It happens much lower down the food chain too. Don't get me started on coaches and egos. I've got one near me with an ego the size of China.

You can't beat a coaching team in my view. A team trumps an individual all day long.

[klacr]

That isn't a scenario confined to tour coaches. It happens much lower down the food chain too. Don't get me started on coaches and egos. I've got one near me with an ego the size of China.

You can't beat a coaching team in my view. A team trumps an individual all day long.

You are right. I was speaking specifically in regards to Nishikori and other Tour players. But yes, many egos are found off the tour at private clubs and courts. We all know those coaches. Good luck with your China sized challenge Stotty

JY and myself have spoken at length about the tour coaching bubble. It's one thing that SETS Consulting is trying to change and making some progress. More on that later

Kyle LaCroix USPTA, PTR
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

[don_budge]

Would love to discuss my article, "Tour Strokes: Kei Nishikori Serve"

Nice article on some interesting cultural insights in the world of tennis coaching. Tennis coaches and Golf coaches tend to have somewhat fragile egos. That I is not the same as having a big ego. That being said...I have always respected your service motion analysis. Particularly as you use Roger Federer as your model.

I've been watching just about every player in the draw of the Mutua Madrid Open this week and I have to say that I have not seen one single service motion that I admire let alone approve of. All types of hitches and yips in every single one of them. The young kid from Spain has two noticeable hesitations built into his delivery and it never ceases to amaze me that these guys have coaches that they pay because not one single one of them ever gets "fixed". Ever notice how every single professional golf swing looks basically the same? That is because there is a sound fundamental way to swing a golf club and everyone strives for perfection. That is not to say that there are some nuances and individual variations within the narrow confines of the control limits.

Daniel Evans has a pretty decent swing. Particularly for his height. I imagine that Nishikori is about the same height but their game styles are worlds apart. Every single player hits their serve leaping into the court then retreating back behind the baseline. It is actually no surprise that Nishikori has a huge braking mechanism built into his service motion. It is as if he catches himself..."yikes, I am going forwards!" Then he retreats. His motion is a classic "hit" motion as opposed to a "swing" motion.

Too many cooks spoil the pot. This is so true in coaching service motions. I am amazed that nobody seems to have a handle on what is a perfect service motion. I am amazed how many coaches are willing to settle for less than perfect. But on the other hand...johnyandell makes a perfect potential partner in this respect. His talent with the video camera and his belief in platform, perfect service motions makes him the exception to the rule. It is impossible to have more than one coach for a service motion. Even more that one coach to a players. If you need more than one...the coach isn't doing his job.

I don't think that great coaches necessarily have to have been great players. There is a big difference. In the modern game, it is as if there is a "reality show" of coaches going on. Celebrity coaches. As a matter of fact, I will go out on a limb here and say what I have been saying for many years...the coaching of the game of tennis was hijacked back in the eighties. "Bowl of Cherries" led the charge. Image is everything. I think that this is what these old tennis champions are doing...players think that their image is enhanced with a big name in their box.

I'm curious what Kyle is hawking in the coaching world. I think that I would know immediately if it is going to make a difference. Fundamentals: rule number one, two and three. Another reason to go with johnyandell. Always FC...fundamentally correct. You are right, John, about the Nishikori serve...fundamentally it is not sound on the basis of the follow through. His coach was an idiot not to listen to you. No surprise there.

[arturohernandez]

I am a little late to the party here. Ouch!!! That hurts.

I am also shocked at how bad the serve can look at every level. It is like the left over that no one has to worry about until they do. And then it is too late and no one wants to make a player who has scaled up the ladder drop down.

That is why we need more Pete Fishers in the world. Even Lansdorp disagreed with him and thought Sampras had a fine volley and did not need a one handed topspin shot. Fisher thought otherwise and Lansdorp eventually accepted that Sampras would have had more trouble winning Wimbledon without a one hander.

So back to Kei's serve.

I am baffled by the fact that so many athletes do not have a basic throwing motion down. I did not have one either. No one ever taught me to let my arm "pronate."

I know I hate the term but I hate having to talk about the other technical terms too.

I taught my daughter from day one to flip the racket out after contact. I explicitly did this from day one. No questions asked and I watched her hit the side fence a few times and whiff on the ball more than once. Why oh why is this not the very first thing that is learned when serving?

It seems to me that throwing with a wrist out is the most basic thing to learn before serving.

What I think is that Kei saw the finish of the racket down after the flip and imitated that. Had he just been taught to finish out and flip the racket his serve might have been a lot better.

Of course, I say that having never been taught it as a kid.

I am not working with multiple kids and the serve has so many moving parts that there are chances for things to go wrong everywhere.

Still, the basic finish out somehow is the part that I see go wrong a lot. And teaching it is not too complicated.

Okay, so what am I missing here? Help please!

[jeremy93]

John what do you see wrong with Kei’s use of legs and stance? U mention that at the end of the article. On another note his after contact movement of the wrist really makes it seem like someone incorrectly taught him to snap his wrist.

[johnyandell]

DB,
Yep Fed is the best model. When it comes to Kei he has more severe problems...

AT,
Well I am pretty sure Fed never spent a lot of time throwing baseballs or footballs.

Jeremy,
The arm action is the key problem. Looks like he might have been taught to stress wrist snap...but you never know. But he doesn't have much turn away from the ball and that stance means less than optimum leg drive. Plenty of players have tour level serves though without those...but don't need wrist surgery.

[glacierguy]

Really surprising analysis. I had no idea Nishikori's serve was stressing his body so much - painful to watch in slo-mo. Thanks

[jthb1021]

[jthb1021]

That picture showed up on my social media within a day of reading this article. Too bad his coach didn’t take the advice and the same goes for Raonic on the backhand. The Rafa serve lesson from about ten years ago is a fascinating video on this site. Rafa is working on the fundamentals...throwing mechanics and optimum positioning. It was just what he needed! Uncle Tony looked so uncomfortable and maybe even terrified. Fear I believe is the why these issues aren’t addressed. Fear for the coach to lose his job or fear from the player that what if it gets worse and I lose ground. It is probably a scarcity mindset of protecting and not losing as opposed to being open to improving to get those extra few points that win.

[jimlosaltos]

Your article cites Sharapova as also having shoulder problems, perhaps caused by similarities in their service motions. Both Kei and Maria went to Bollettieri / IMG in their formative years although she started there at a younger age and is perhaps 3 years older.

Tangentially, I remember an old quote by her father Yuri: "If {expletive} Bollettieri hadn't switched Maria to playing right-handed, she'd have 9 major titles by now!"

[jeremy93]

Thanks John

[johncraig]

Kei was at my club (The Newport Beach Tennis Club) for the Oracle Challenger several years ago after his long layoff from the wrist injury. I filmed his serve during his practice session, and came to the same conclusion. He was literally trying to snap his wrist into contact. I mentioned my observations to his coach (no names, but let's just say he won the French Open in 1989), and he blew me off. By the way, Kai lost in the first round, and he was gone.