Two Forehands Tennis

[stotty]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-tennis-player

I have often pondered the viability of teaching players to hit two forehands. It's an interesting concept given the high value placed on weaponised forehands in the modern game.

It raises a number of issues, namely, that we are devaluing backhands considerably in going this route. But also can the backhand offer something the forehand does not to counter such a drastic move in tennis? It's worth thinking about the ramifications because if the kid in the clip goes on to have great success, you can bet others will follow.

Try to imagine Rafa Nadal with two forehands...or Roger? Try also to imagine Djokovic or Connors without their backhands. I always think a good backhand offers solidity to a player's game, and the two-hander is second to none for returning serve.

[glacierguy]

I occasionally have a coaching session with Nicolas Rosenzweig, highest ATP ranking about 650, LTA 1.1, who has two forehands. It's really disconcerting when you lob him over what looks like his backhand side, he runs back, turns around and wallops a forehand at you!

[tenniscoach1]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1376655106620424192 - check the second video where he is alternating between a ton of skill sets - he hits everything, forehand, one handed backhand, two handed backhand - EVERYTHING! Yes, this is the way you should train a player. I have always through it would make sense to hit right on Monday's, let the neurology set and hit left on Tuesday and go back to right Wednesday - from a scientific point of view it is the correct thing to do as rest will build neurology and give it time to set. Plus, wear and tear - and it will totally balance a player out as well. if I had a second kid that wanted to play any sport (hockey/tennis/baseball etc) - this would be my approach - scientifically it is valid. The kid will be better for it when he is 18 or 19 and ready to think about what he wants to do with life, sport and academics. Brilliant design for a 3 to 18 year old to be put on - and probably the approach tennis federations should use. Might not win a lot of matches at the youth level due to the state of confusion the athlete would always be in neurologically and all the learning involved to pull it off - but, later on it will pay big dividends.

Hard to say how big he will get, if he loves tennis, has the durability of the horse, will get the right physical training, keeps the insane coaches at bay, differentiates between who knows what and who doesn't (the tough thing to do in tennis), stays away from the con-men, does the proper nutrition - lots of moving parts and things mom/dad will need to navigate correctly.

Not sure why they have him out at the easter bowl, traveling and spending money when you can get a lot of competition playing him against men who can manipulate/move him around and older boys - I hate these out of country events/traveling/exposure/pressure BS when their are more than enough guys at the local club or two guys you can put on the court that can kick his ass day in and day out, not feed the ego and force him to get better.

It's all a glorified industry - and it really means zero at 16/18/20/24 - why people do so many tourneys, travel to orange bowls, spend big cash when their kid isn't even the best player in their home city is beyond me - if you have a girl then she should be better than the men locally and if you have a boy then he should be better than the best men as well - then, and only then do you look at all this other stuff. Sport is about progressions - and, if you aren't the best where you are in your age group - but also minimum three years up your age - traveling 10,000 miles I do not see a point in LOL ... keep em at home, enjoy family time, invest some cash in the local tennis club and if they progress go when they are ready. These academies/tournaments that take kids away from mom and dad and cost big money at 10/11/12 - it's nuts. The best are secure - the best understand their are no shortcuts and the best don't need continual validation with all of these events/schools, etc. My daughter is an okay player - but, I tell her - "when you are ready you are ready to go - not one second before will I allow it - beat the men that are in front of you and show me you are of pro pedigree." Listening to parents talk - "my kid just got back from Spain at the academy and Poland at the academy" - and, I shake my head because their kid is not even the best in the local 100 mile radius and certainly not in the class of the pro's that are retired and coaching locally. Like WTF? Why?

Kvitova did it right - her brothers kicked her ass at a family court they owned in a village and at 17 someone said "hey, go pursue this pro tennis deal" - and, she did. Career high in Junior's was 27, learned to be a pro in 2008 and then stepped it up and was the boss in 2009. That is development.

We will see what happens!

[arturohernandez]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1376655106620424192 - check the second video where he is alternating between a ton of skill sets - he hits everything, forehand, one handed backhand, two handed backhand - EVERYTHING! Yes, this is the way you should train a player. I have always through it would make sense to hit right on Monday's, let the neurology set and hit left on Tuesday and go back to right Wednesday - from a scientific point of view it is the correct thing to do as rest will build neurology and give it time to set. Plus, wear and tear - and it will totally balance a player out as well. if I had a second kid that wanted to play any sport (hockey/tennis/baseball etc) - this would be my approach - scientifically it is valid. The kid will be better for it when he is 18 or 19 and ready to think about what he wants to do with life, sport and academics. Brilliant design for a 3 to 18 year old to be put on - and probably the approach tennis federations should use. Might not win a lot of matches at the youth level due to the state of confusion the athlete would always be in neurologically and all the learning involved to pull it off - but, later on it will pay big dividends.

Hard to say how big he will get, if he loves tennis, has the durability of the horse, will get the right physical training, keeps the insane coaches at bay, differentiates between who knows what and who doesn't (the tough thing to do in tennis), stays away from the con-men, does the proper nutrition - lots of moving parts and things mom/dad will need to navigate correctly.

Not sure why they have him out at the easter bowl, traveling and spending money when you can get a lot of competition playing him against men who can manipulate/move him around and older boys - I hate these out of country events/traveling/exposure/pressure BS when their are more than enough guys at the local club or two guys you can put on the court that can kick his ass day in and day out, not feed the ego and force him to get better.

It's all a glorified industry - and it really means zero at 16/18/20/24 - why people do so many tourneys, travel to orange bowls, spend big cash when their kid isn't even the best player in their home city is beyond me - if you have a girl then she should be better than the men locally and if you have a boy then he should be better than the best men as well - then, and only then do you look at all this other stuff. Sport is about progressions - and, if you aren't the best where you are in your age group - but also minimum three years up your age - traveling 10,000 miles I do not see a point in LOL ... keep em at home, enjoy family time, invest some cash in the local tennis club and if they progress go when they are ready. These academies/tournaments that take kids away from mom and dad and cost big money at 10/11/12 - it's nuts. The best are secure - the best understand their are no shortcuts and the best don't need continual validation with all of these events/schools, etc. My daughter is an okay player - but, I tell her - "when you are ready you are ready to go - not one second before will I allow it - beat the men that are in front of you and show me you are of pro pedigree." Listening to parents talk - "my kid just got back from Spain at the academy and Poland at the academy" - and, I shake my head because their kid is not even the best in the local 100 mile radius and certainly not in the class of the pro's that are retired and coaching locally. Like WTF? Why?

Kvitova did it right - her brothers kicked her ass at a family court they owned in a village and at 17 someone said "hey, go pursue this pro tennis deal" - and, she did. Career high in Junior's was 27, learned to be a pro in 2008 and then stepped it up and was the boss in 2009. That is development.

We will see what happens!

The other one is "my kid hits with players from the XXX University team." I am about to join that club. You basically pay college players to hit with your kid. It is high level tennis and good practice. But you are still paying for a service.

I don't plan to brag about where or who they hit with.

I'm with you and Landsdorp on this one. Fancy practice is just fancy practice. The nuts and bolts happens between coach/parent and player. One on one. The rest should be a result of greatness not the way to greatness. How many great players just hit against the wall?

Lendl, Borg, Barty...

Maybe we should set up a "wall academy" and charge people $100 a day to hit against the wall.

[tenniscoach1]

The other one is "my kid hits with players from the XXX University team." I am about to join that club. You basically pay college players to hit with your kid. It is high level tennis and good practice. But you are still paying for a service.

I don't plan to brag about where or who they hit with.

I'm with you and Landsdorp on this one. Fancy practice is just fancy practice. The nuts and bolts happens between coach/parent and player. One on one. The rest should be a result of greatness not the way to greatness. How many great players just hit against the wall?

Lendl, Borg, Barty...

Maybe we should set up a "wall academy" and charge people $100 a day to hit against the wall.

Hey, I am for all paying the university kids to hit with a young player - no better way to learn. Worth the cost. Humbles them pretty quick - especially the girls. Its a no win with girls - men are just superior and it is easy to get them good competition. Funny you mention that - I just built a wall for our courts - re-built a dilapidated old post Soviet era court. Putting in new lights - that will take me 10 days - then I am putting in new fencing. I was just given the place - and told "good luck" ... its at a yacht club that has run out of cash so they are happy with anything they get lol ...

[arturohernandez]

Hey, I am for all paying the university kids to hit with a young player - no better way to learn. Worth the cost. Humbles them pretty quick - especially the girls. Its a no win with girls - men are just superior and it is easy to get them good competition. Funny you mention that - I just built a wall for our courts - re-built a dilapidated old post Soviet era court. Putting in new lights - that will take me 10 days - then I am putting in new fencing. I was just given the place - and told "good luck" ... its at a yacht club that has run out of cash so they are happy with anything they get lol ...

I like it!!

[doctorhl]

Hey, I am for all paying the university kids to hit with a young player - no better way to learn. Worth the cost. Humbles them pretty quick - especially the girls. Its a no win with girls - men are just superior and it is easy to get them good competition. Funny you mention that - I just built a wall for our courts - re-built a dilapidated old post Soviet era court. Putting in new lights - that will take me 10 days - then I am putting in new fencing. I was just given the place - and told "good luck" ... its at a yacht club that has run out of cash so they are happy with anything they get lol ...

The wall....probably the best teaching tool ever invented. Used it incessantly to unlearn old school groundstrokes with 45 years of motor memory in them at the time ( age 58) and moved to ATP groundstrokes with subsequent grip changes and footwork. Learning process felt like it did at age 10 with the additional hurdle of unlearning. Couldn’t have done it without the wall.

[tenniscoach1]

I like it!!

Thanks man!

[tenniscoach1]

The wall....probably the best teaching tool ever invented. Used it incessantly to unlearn old school groundstrokes with 45 years of motor memory in them at the time ( age 58) and moved to ATP groundstrokes with subsequent grip changes and footwork. Learning process felt like it did at age 10 with the additional hurdle of unlearning. Couldn’t have done it without the wall.

I think I will play a bit with the angle of it and see what happens in terms of what kind of ball it gives back ... I might split it into sections with differing angles to make it crazy challenging. Still working it out - going to go on my boat today with a tin of cherry skoal and think about how I can design a wall to fu***C&&&k up tennis players and push them to another level ...

[tenniscoach1]

Here boys is something interesting - its a Bruce Lee milkshake - haha ... kind of insane when you study his manuals how far ahead he was of the rest of the world.

[doctorhl]

I think I will play a bit with the angle of it and see what happens in terms of what kind of ball it gives back ... I might split it into sections with differing angles to make it crazy challenging. Still working it out - going to go on my boat today with a tin of cherry skoal and think about how I can design a wall to fu***C&&&k up tennis players and push them to another level ...

Please try putting a section on a vertical tilt so that one can hit shoulder high balls. Or better yet, design the section to vertically tilt with hydraulics operated by a remote. In many instances, such a device would be better than a ball machine that requires loading and setup!

[stotty]

I can see two forehands tennis could certainly work. It's just the tradition of forehands and backhands will be awfully hard to break. At the moment it's just driven parents looking for any edge under the sun driving the concept - not coaches. It would take a brave coach to start teaching all his performance players to play tennis with two forehands. And his students would need extraordinary dedication.

Me, I prefer the tradition of forehands and backhands and the diversity that brings to the game. Having players with two forehands will reduce things to an even more one-dimensional state.

And does it just start and end with baseline tennis? How about volleys? The backhand volley offers elements the forehand volley cannot. A true volleyer wouldn't be seen dead without his backhand volley and what it brings to the table.

But it is a scary thought to imagine Rafa or Roger with two forehands.

[johnyandell]

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/classiclessons/chris_lewit/future_trends/part_2/

Did you guys see this one?

[stotty]

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...trends/part_2/

Did you guys see this one?

Yes I had forgotten this article.

I am not sure whether a player needs to be ambidextrous in order to hit two forehands or whether such a skill can be learnt by anyone. Either way it would take a brave coach to take the plunge and convince a stable of performance players to commit to his cause. It would be a radical move. You can see why it's parents who have been the ones to make the move so far. They can take the brunt of responsibility where as coaches might be unwilling to do so because they truly don't know what the outcome might be. Namely, will the concept produce better tennis players.

[don_budge]

https://www.facebook.com/thebsblr/videos/318784742979974