2021 Barcelona Open Banc Sabadell...ATP 500...Barcelona, Spain

[stroke]

Sinner win with 2nd set tiebreaker. Rublev looked a bit jaded. It must be frustrating for a player like Rublev, clearly putting in a lot of effort, particularly on the forehand, and there is Sinner, who can even seemingly hit a bigger ball than Rublev, and looking effortlessly smooth doing so.

[stotty]

Sinner win with 2nd set tiebreaker. Rublev looked a bit jaded. It must be frustrating for a player like Rublev, clearly putting in a lot of effort, particularly on the forehand, and there is Sinner, who can even seemingly hit a bigger ball than Rublev, and looking effortlessly smooth doing so.

That's just a gift. Be interesting to see how far Sinner goes.

[stroke]

Stef at his best level ever. Should be some match tomorrow vs Sinner.

[stotty]

FAA found Tsitsipas overwhelming in the first set, which I managed to catch. Tsitsipas has become more powerful over the past few months and is physically stronger than what he was. One imagines he cuts an imposing figure at the other end of the court for his opponents. My guess is he will manage Sinner well enough to win and hopefully set up a potential showdown with the greatest Spaniard of them all.

[don_budge]

The Tsitsipatti Kid...aka Stefanos Tsitsipas

When teaching or analysing a service motion one must have a fundamentally sound approach that will lead you to sources of inconsistency or otherwise faulty friction producing issues. Thank you jyandell for this much anticipated view of the Stefanos Tsitsipas motion.

When I analyse or teach a serve it all boils down to the same thing...setup position, initiation of the backswing, the track of the backswing, transition and finally forwards swing. Once you finally get to the forwards swing that is more or less preordained by the sequence of events that have preceded it. It is no different with Stefanos Tsitsipas. It doesn't change anything from my perspective that he is ranked such and such in the world. Even that he hits it a ton and manages to hold serve X% of the time doesn't change anything. There is always room for improvement in a motion, unless it has achieved perfect frictionless motion. As in a rollercoaster. As it stands now...the motion of the Greek has loads of potential. Loads of room for improvement. It is beyond me why the father, who is his "coach", has not seen this enormous source of potential. The French coach, Patrick what's his name, seems to be clueless in the same regard.

When looking at the setup position of Stefanos, the first thing we will discuss is his grip. There are those who take great exception to the grip as if it is a source of issues or a problem of some sort. Personally, I don't have any issues with the grip. It is a bit strong perhaps but it has nothing to do with more important issues in the motion. I suppose one could make an argument in certain circles that the stronger grip might effect his ability to spin the ball or in the way it unleashes into impact, but these are minor exceptions. There have been great servers whose grips are somewhat less than optimal.

The issues I have with the setup is the placement of the feet. They seem to be somewhat haphazardly askew. The rear foot is pointing in a direction that is totally unrelated to the direction or aim of his serve. Why is this a problem? Because the alignment of the feet are going to influence the "track" of the backswing. Too bad there isn't a rear view of the serve. Rear views are always preferred when it comes to analysing strokes or swings. You get a better sense of alignment and the "track" of the swing. Feet are simply shoulder width apart and the line that the toes of both feet make is the aim of the server. Most importantly the track of the backswing is on a line in front of the toes parallel to the line the toes create.

I don't care for the way that Stefanos holds the ball in his left hand against the strings of his racquet. I prefer the left hand holding the racquet up with the last two or three fingers at the throat of the racquet. In this way there is connection to the racquet with both hands and therefore both sides of the body at the very beginning of the motion. He seems to be somewhat disconnected from the very onset. From my point of view the real issues of Stefanos are rooted in his left hand's participation of the swing. The real issue is, as John points out and I have pointed out numerous times in discussing his motion, is the abbreviated tossing motion which plays real havoc with the entire motion. You see, by abbreviation of the tossing motion you have to do something with the other side of the equation to keep it balanced and the other side of the equation in the service motion just happens to be the backswing. Stefanos makes two rather clumsy attempts to get both sides working together by abbreviation of his backswing in a most awkward movement and by tossing the ball too high to give himself time to complete his entire swing. By creating a shorten tossing motion he has robbed himself of some valuable time to make his entire swing.

The backswing really doesn't make any sense to me at all. With the faulty setup and the time killing tossing motion he doesn't even give himself a chance to make the correct backswing which is a free falling motion of the racquet head from setup position onto the track I defined above. There isn't any point in discussing the rest of his swing until he makes the adjustments in his setup and his toss. I don't have any issues at all with the dispersion of his tosses. In fact, I think it is a very good idea to learn to toss the ball in different spots to promote spin and placement. It also can be used a an excellent form of deception to the opponent. For instance, the serve in the deuce court might toss the ball far to his right to give the opponent the sense of impending wide slicing serve but the server can with training learn to hit the flat ball up the T from this position. I also think it a good idea to move the position around on the baseline to promote angles...and deception. These fundamental ideas are very doable if the server possesses a perfect, frictionless motion. Such a motion opens up an entire world of possibilities for the server tactics and permutations and combinations.

The "fix" for Tsitsipas is to get him aligned properly and to get him toss the ball with a full range of motion with the left hand. Then you go to work on a more full range of motion with the back swing which transitions with the seamless glide into the forwards swing. Obviously as it stands, Stefanos gets by quite well with this rather herky jerky motion. Even the way he finishes his swing in the video suggests that he way off balance and fights to maintain his balance in his follow through. The million dollar question is...how good could it possibly be? Taking into account his physique and the beautiful way in which he hits his backhand...he has tons of potential. I would love to see this motion in the stroke archives where the frame by frame option is available.

https://www.atptour.com/en/players/a...sime/TE51/AG37

Posted March 4, 2018...over three years ago.

My take away from this tournament was a kid by the name of Stefano Tsitsipas. Nice one hand backhand...good physique and a nice forehand to go with it. Needs a bit of seasoning on the service motion to iron out a couple of kinks...just to smooth it out. Silky smooth it out. Throw in a slice backhand and a couple of chapters of tactics. He's nineteen, wears a bandana and he has the look of a tennis player. Coached by his dad apparently...maybe it is time for some outside influence. He lost to Dimitrov's conqueror in three sets.

Off to Indian Wells.

Stefanos Tsitsipas seems to be blossoming. Not that there isn't some serious room for improvement. I still stand by my original post. Nothing has changed in a sense. The comment stands by itself. But the progress has been steady. Steady as she goes. He sort of handicapped himself in a couple of respects in a sense. He put in extra time in the gym which may have slowed his tennis down a bit. But that is paying off. He played a lot of doubles with his kid brother...Kid Tsitsipas. But that too is a bonus. The match against Felix Auger-Aliassime was a watershed moment. Felix had been somewhat a thorn in the "Tsitsy" side but the tide has turned. Four times in a row Stefanos has sent Felix packing. This last time was with mucho gusto. Good bye...see ya never.

Stefanos vs. Jannik Sinner? On paper it is all Tsitsipas. Sinner has an impressive win over Andrey Rublev in the previous round, but Rublev looks a bit tired after a long campaign in the beginning of 2021. Stefanos seems to be hitting stride, but on the other hand, it is all eyes on the French Open. It would behoove Mr. Tsitsipas to force a confrontation with Señor Nadal here in Barcelona. The Sinner match is consequential of course. Stefanos wants to show the kid who's boss. But the possibility of a showdown with the real nemesis would give him a chance to send "The Obsessive/Compulsive One" a clear and sobering message. Pin the ears back on the donkey.

A classic one hand-backhand vs. the two-hand backhand in Tsitsipas/Sinner match.

[stroke]

Oddsmakers have Stef at 66% chance of winning vs Sinner.

[stroke]

That 16 sets in a row for Stef. Stef's heavy rpm's game and beautiful movement taylor made for clay it seems.

[stotty]

Assuming the great Nadal makes it to the final, I shall take a few hours off to watch that one. Stef has the big game to do it if he can fire on all cylinders.

[stroke]

Yes Nadal will most certainly be the favorite. Stef will have his hands full. I would not like his chances at all vs a prime Nadal, but Nadal has slowed down enough to think the reign is close to an end, maybe.

[stroke]

Nadal the oh so slight favorite at a 54% implied probability of winning the match. Safe to say the oddsmakers are on board with the Tsitsipas juggernaut.

[don_budge]

The Tsitsipatti Kid...Evolution and Biomechanics

When teaching or analysing a service motion one must have a fundamentally sound approach that will lead you to sources of inconsistency or otherwise faulty friction producing issues. Thank you jyandell for this much anticipated view of the Stefanos Tsitsipas motion.

When I analyse or teach a serve it all boils down to the same thing...setup position, initiation of the backswing, the track of the backswing, transition and finally forwards swing. Once you finally get to the forwards swing that is more or less preordained by the sequence of events that have preceded it. It is no different with Stefanos Tsitsipas. It doesn't change anything from my perspective that he is ranked such and such in the world. Even that he hits it a ton and manages to hold serve X% of the time doesn't change anything. There is always room for improvement in a motion, unless it has achieved perfect frictionless motion. As in a rollercoaster. As it stands now...the motion of the Greek has loads of potential. Loads of room for improvement. It is beyond me why the father, who is his "coach", has not seen this enormous source of potential. The French coach, Patrick what's his name, seems to be clueless in the same regard.

When looking at the setup position of Stefanos, the first thing we will discuss is his grip. There are those who take great exception to the grip as if it is a source of issues or a problem of some sort. Personally, I don't have any issues with the grip. It is a bit strong perhaps but it has nothing to do with more important issues in the motion. I suppose one could make an argument in certain circles that the stronger grip might effect his ability to spin the ball or in the way it unleashes into impact, but these are minor exceptions. There have been great servers whose grips are somewhat less than optimal.

The issues I have with the setup is the placement of the feet. They seem to be somewhat haphazardly askew. The rear foot is pointing in a direction that is totally unrelated to the direction or aim of his serve. Why is this a problem? Because the alignment of the feet are going to influence the "track" of the backswing. Too bad there isn't a rear view of the serve. Rear views are always preferred when it comes to analysing strokes or swings. You get a better sense of alignment and the "track" of the swing. Feet are simply shoulder width apart and the line that the toes of both feet make is the aim of the server. Most importantly the track of the backswing is on a line in front of the toes parallel to the line the toes create.

I don't care for the way that Stefanos holds the ball in his left hand against the strings of his racquet. I prefer the left hand holding the racquet up with the last two or three fingers at the throat of the racquet. In this way there is connection to the racquet with both hands and therefore both sides of the body at the very beginning of the motion. He seems to be somewhat disconnected from the very onset. From my point of view the real issues of Stefanos are rooted in his left hand's participation of the swing. The real issue is, as John points out and I have pointed out numerous times in discussing his motion, is the abbreviated tossing motion which plays real havoc with the entire motion. You see, by abbreviation of the tossing motion you have to do something with the other side of the equation to keep it balanced and the other side of the equation in the service motion just happens to be the backswing. Stefanos makes two rather clumsy attempts to get both sides working together by abbreviation of his backswing in a most awkward movement and by tossing the ball too high to give himself time to complete his entire swing. By creating a shorten tossing motion he has robbed himself of some valuable time to make his entire swing.

The backswing really doesn't make any sense to me at all. With the faulty setup and the time killing tossing motion he doesn't even give himself a chance to make the correct backswing which is a free falling motion of the racquet head from setup position onto the track I defined above. There isn't any point in discussing the rest of his swing until he makes the adjustments in his setup and his toss. I don't have any issues at all with the dispersion of his tosses. In fact, I think it is a very good idea to learn to toss the ball in different spots to promote spin and placement. It also can be used a an excellent form of deception to the opponent. For instance, the serve in the deuce court might toss the ball far to his right to give the opponent the sense of impending wide slicing serve but the server can with training learn to hit the flat ball up the T from this position. I also think it a good idea to move the position around on the baseline to promote angles...and deception. These fundamental ideas are very doable if the server possesses a perfect, frictionless motion. Such a motion opens up an entire world of possibilities for the server tactics and permutations and combinations.

The "fix" for Tsitsipas is to get him aligned properly and to get him toss the ball with a full range of motion with the left hand. Then you go to work on a more full range of motion with the back swing which transitions with the seamless glide into the forwards swing. Obviously as it stands, Stefanos gets by quite well with this rather herky jerky motion. Even the way he finishes his swing in the video suggests that he way off balance and fights to maintain his balance in his follow through. The million dollar question is...how good could it possibly be? Taking into account his physique and the beautiful way in which he hits his backhand...he has tons of potential. I would love to see this motion in the stroke archives where the frame by frame option is available.

Tsitsy won the tournament for a number of reasons. None of them having to do with his service motion. Skeptics? What does that mean? Count me in. I have been a Tsitsipas supporter from when he first appeared. If I am not mistaken, I introduced him to the forum and have always voiced a positive voice on his potential. He still has vast potential in that service motion too. That is a good thing. My dear old tennis coach used to say that potential means room for improvement. There is friction. It could use some ironing out. Get rid of the wrinkles. The serving statistics can be misleading. They don't tell us that perhaps Rublev was a step slow on account he was done in by the week's activities. Stefanos was the fresher of the two. I don't see that little fun fact in the statistics. I'm still skeptical. Unimpressed as well. A coach can never be too much in awe to not be able to analyse and constructively criticise.

Stefanos Tsitsipas manhandled Jannik Sinner yesterday to the tune of 6-3, 6-3. Pretty sweet music being played out on centre court at the Barcelona Tennis Center. Sinner had a nice win over Andrey Rublev the day before and he is in the hunt at the tender age of 19. It is going to very interesting to see how he reacts to the expectations of him going forwards. He has a different attitude than an Alexander Zverev for instance. You don't get the feeling that he is going to succumb to the "deer in the headlights" syndrome. There is this "weird" calmness about him. It's as if he is a cocoon or something. Maybe I will call him "Butterfly Boy". "Fjäril Pojke" in Swedish. He's had some great wins for a butterfly. Let's just say he is a bit of an enigma. His detachment doesn't seem to be Borgian. He is in his own little world. Traveling the globe playing high stakes tennis against the best and winning half of the time. He just might emerge from the cocoon and the the Greatest Tennis Player of All Time as some are prematurely projecting. Why does there always have to be a GOAT? Isn't being good enough? Isn't being great good enough? I wouldn't necessarily say that Roger Federer is the GOAT and in fact, I don't believe that I ever have. Isn't the judgement left to God? You be the judge. You are all so much smarter than me. I'm just a hick. A voice in the wilderness.

"The Tsitsipatti Kid". That is a play on the "The Cincinnati Kid" for those too young to recognise it. He bullied the boy yesterday. But he definitely didn't do it with his serve. His serve was "good" enough. Don't get me wrong. Don't misunderstand me. For God sake get it right. The backhand is so glorious. It's not Wawrinkian by the way. It has a identity of its own. It's Tsitsipattian. That is the beautiful thing about Stefanos. I saw it in the very beginning. That reminds me. I need to quote myself once more.

My take away from this tournament was a kid by the name of Stefano Tsitsipas. Nice one hand backhand...good physique and a nice forehand to go with it. Needs a bit of seasoning on the service motion to iron out a couple of kinks...just to smooth it out. Silky smooth it out. Throw in a slice backhand and a couple of chapters of tactics. He's nineteen, wears a bandana and he has the look of a tennis player. Coached by his dad apparently...maybe it is time for some outside influence. He lost to Dimitrov's conqueror in three sets.

Off to Indian Wells.

It is a redeeming thing to quote myself from years ago knowing that I wouldn't have said it any differently. Not that I have any idea what will be. The future takes care of itself. But still. It is right there. The kinky serve. The backhand. The bandanna. The look. The lack of the slice backhand. Not bad...eh? I'm talking to myself again. It's ok. Nobody here. Just the animals and the trees. The wind. Swirling around in the canyon of my mind. On the cusp of madness. Cue the Vincent Price maniacal laugh. Hahaha. Fooled you...didn't I. Crazy maybe...but crazy like a fox.

Tsitsipas has a date with destiny once again. An ATP 500 final with Fafa Nadal in his own backyard. Novak had his own ass handed to him in his backyard yesterday. Is it too much to hope that lightening will strike twice today? Stefanos, for all of his potential, is right on time. Alexander stumbled when he reached the cusp of success. He couldn't handle success. Not on such a grand level. He's human. It is a tough ask. But somehow Stefanos has been putting himself in position time and time again to take the next step. He has worked his tail off by handicapping himself in the present with so many demands on himself in order to take that next step up the food chain. It has been very impressive to watch. But now it is time to do or die. He looks like he is ready to take a big bite now. Nadal looked like he was stumbling until he got a worn out "Busta" in the semis. He knew what he had to do. But Stefanos is another matter. He has been out slaying dragons they say. The bigger they come the harder they fall.

The serve is problematic in a case like this. Some say it is functional. How did one poster put it..."put a spanner in the biomechanical works of idealism". That is as dumb as it gets. For a guy on the cusp of greatness to rationalise that such a motion is good enough at this level is criminal. Particularly if you do this for a living. In the match against Jannik Sinner yesterday I was watching Stefanos on his service game. He was holding serve. He couldn't be faulted on that. But is that enough on this level? In my book he wasn't dominating that part of the game as he should. With all of his ability. With that glorious backhand. All of the other attributes. I was thinking of Roger Federer and what a great serve he has. All dependent on his motion, of course. I was thinking about how good Roger is at serving out matches. Year in...year out. I was thinking how many times Roger gets in a groove where he is winning his service game in the short span of a minute or so. How many love game he serves. How many times he wins at 15. You see...that is the kind of serving "The Tsitsipatti Kid" is capable of. That is the equivalent of three rungs up the ladder. The food chain. To not understand that is...I want to say criminal. But knowing human nature. How small minds work. Without the ability to dream. To aspire. To dream the impossible dream. Well...you get the picture. Nothing new under the sun.

I could fix it. Little old me. don_quixote. A voice in the wilderness. If only Stefanos had Roger's service motion to take into the match today. This would be all but preordained. As it is, he has at least a fifty/fifty chance. He might hammer Señor Nadal into next week. Like Aslan Karatsev did Novak Djokovic did yesterday. But it won't be because of a perfect service motion. Which is well within his grasp. Why hasn't someone planted that seed in his head?

[don_budge]

Early on...a couple of things. Number one...Nadal broken at love in his second service game. On one point he bounced 15 times before his first serve, then 14 times on his second. The second serve was a let so he bounced 12 times. That was 41 bounces on one point...not to mention three butt picks with assorted other ticks. This idiot is a real piece of work. Hopefully "The Tsitsipatti Kid" makes him wish his mother never had him. Sort of like Karatsev made Djokovic feel yesterday. Probably too much to hope for.

[stroke]

I don't know if it is possible to feel the pain and be bullied more on the tennis court than Novak was yesterday.

[stroke]

Can't help but feel bad for Stef. So close, but I am sure it does not feel that way to him. 12 more unforced errors for the match than Nadal probably the most telling stat.

[don_budge]

Can't help but feel bad for Stef. So close, but I am sure it does not feel that way to him. 12 more unforced errors for the match than Nadal probably the most telling stat.

That may be true stroke...but for me it was the serve. He was up a break in the first and couldn't hold. The serve is not what it needs to be. One can say..."oh, it works". But that is stupid. The potential in this young man's game has yet to be mined. I suspect that it never will be. Tough loss. It should never have happened. I don't feel bad for him other than his team doesn't get it.