Your Strokes: Anthony Forehand

[johnyandell]

Would love to get your thoughts on my article "Your Strokes: Anthony Forehand"

[jeffreycounts]

Nice forehand! Love the way he starts by uncoiling and lifting from his legs followed by the pull of the arm.

Other than the stance and left arm stretch that John pointed out, I would also suggest closing the face off more at contact to get proper topspin. The face of his racket is slightly open on both shots,

The other thing for me would be his arm position on contact. Federer's arm is straighter and more to the side of his body. Anthony's arm is far in front, but just doesn't seem to be away from his body enough like Federer's

I think that still Frame of Federer would be a great contact model position for Anthony.

anthony_forehand.jpg

[arturohernandez]

Nice forehand! Love the way he starts by uncoiling and lifting from his legs followed by the pull of the arm.

Other than the stance and left arm stretch that John pointed out, I would also suggest closing the face off more at contact to get proper topspin. The face of his racket is slightly open on both shots,

The other thing for me would be his arm position on contact. Federer's arm is straighter and more to the side of his body. Anthony's arm is far in front, but just doesn't seem to be away from his body enough like Federer's

I think that still Frame of Federer would be a great contact model position for Anthony.

anthony_forehand.jpg

Great analysis! I always wonder if there is a developmental progression here. Kids can model adults but Federer did not hit the same forehand he hit today as a kid. It changed across time. And Fed often goes full on classical for his return of serve. The classic forehand evolved into a more advanced modern forehand.

Do you think he might be hitting this way too young and maybe a more classic forehand would teach him other things?

I am not saying he should go backward.

Just wondering if being too advanced as a kid doesn't mean being advanced as an adult.

[doctorhl]

Great analysis! I always wonder if there is a developmental progression here. Kids can model adults but Federer did not hit the same forehand he hit today as a kid. It changed across time. And Fed often goes full on classical for his return of serve. The classic forehand evolved into a more advanced modern forehand.

Do you think he might be hitting this way too young and maybe a more classic forehand would teach him other things?

I am not saying he should go backward.

Just wondering if being too advanced as a kid doesn't mean being advanced as an adult.

To add to your great questions Arturo......if a young kid doesn't quite have the ability to move with balance and get the ball in the strike zone, do you encourage hitting a more classical style when one cant get the ball in the wheelhouse? Is the classical style easier to position for perfect striking than the modern style? Do some kids automatically switch to a more classic style swing when they know the incoming ball will most likely be out of their strike zone? I just see many kids that dont alter their swing at all when the ball is going to clearly be out of their strike zone. Do you then heavily emphasize better positioning or recognition and willingness to alter the swing on out of position balls?( I'm talking just a few inches out of strike zone). There is only so much a kid can do to improve speed and reaction time for better positioning. But you guys coaching every day know how much this topic can play with a kid's head (and some "helicopter" parents) and the amount of intervention that might be productive/counterproductive.

[jeffreycounts]

I figured out what was bothering me. It's not just the contact point. It's the extreme low to high motion that is causing the racket face to tilt open. It also prevents him from going through the ball: John wrote a fantastic article on this low to high path being a myth (click here). The initial pull of the racket should be linear, not straight upward. I would put a table next to Anthony have him pull on top of the table so he get's the feeling of not letting the racket drop like that. It would also prevent that almost straight upward motion.

Anthony has the right uncoiling of the shoulders and pulling motion. But the problem it's directed entirely upwards not forwards. I wouldn't be surprised if this originated from the mistaken notion that you need an extreme low to high motion for topspin.

I like these animations from the Bollitieri Killer Forehand article to show how the pull should start out in a linear fashion. Also check out Brian's article on the forehand to see the more linear pulling motions in the "dynamic slot". Click Here for that.

If Anthony could get his pull more linear, I think he'll have a huge forehand.


anthony.gif

[johnyandell]

Is that excessive low to high or just the spin dial backward rotation before the wiper? I still think that improving the turn and the stance are the first keys and might correct other stuff naturally.

[stroke]

Jeff, I think you are right. I don't think you ever see Fed or Nadal's racquet tip pointing towards the ground prior to the pull to contact.

[doctorhl]

“I wouldn't be surprised if this originated from the mistaken notion that you need an extreme low to high motion for topspin.”

John & Jeff: Any words of wisdom about short, very young kids tweaking their high to low (or spin dial backward rotation) swings. Many balls encountered are above the shoulders for the 10 & under group, but most seem to naturally adapt their swing plane as they grow taller and also gain the ability to hit many balls on the rise. But some get stuck.

[arturohernandez]

“I wouldn't be surprised if this originated from the mistaken notion that you need an extreme low to high motion for topspin.”

John & Jeff: Any words of wisdom about short, very young kids tweaking their high to low (or spin dial backward rotation) swings. Many balls encountered are above the shoulders for the 10 & under group, but most seem to naturally adapt their swing plane as they grow taller and also gain the ability to hit many balls on the rise. But some get stuck.

Isn't that the argument for using softer balls with kids? It is better for them to hit the soft at waste height to develop good technique at a young age. As they get older they will then adapt the technique and still hit at waist level.

Clay courts are also thought to slow the ball and give kids more time to hit the ball. Rather than trying to ping-pong it like they do on hard courts. Or just moon ball and then move back all the time to hit it.

[jeffreycounts]

httpswww.tennisplayer.netmembershigh_speed_archivephantomRoger_Federer_HD_HSindex.htmldir=ForehandRF_FH_Inside_Out&str.png

Jeff, I think you are right. I don't think you ever see Fed or Nadal's racquet tip pointing towards the ground prior to the pull to contact.

I’ve never seen it. But even if you did, the racket face would definitely not tilt open as you came up. Even a slice forehand wouldn’t be that open on contact imo. If you watch the ball after contact it goes straight up in the air because of the open face.

Here the butt cap of Roger’s racket is about the level of the incoming ball. His racket face is tilted closed. That’s what you want in the slot position.

[stroke]

I’ve never seen it. But even if you did, the racket face would definitely not tilt open as you came up. Even a slice forehand wouldn’t be that open on contact imo. If you watch the ball after contact it goes straight up in the air because of the open face.

Copy.that. I think BG would have some reservations regarding his model type 3 and what is going on here.

[jthb1021]

Definitely don’t scrap it and start over! At 10 he’s on a great track! I totally agree with the left arm stretch and the left arm in general has no clue compared with the advanced elements he’s incorporating with the racquet hand. There is a lot of good stuff being said about this forehand and I will enjoy following this one, but keep hitting it Anthony. Good for his dad getting another opinion too!

[stotty]

Antony has a great foundation to build on in my view. He has almost certainly learned by watching and emulating others and is probably a good visual learner. For a 10-year-old, everything is on track to developing a really good forehand. Obviously there is still much to perfect. One thing I would have him do is practice plenty of reps starting from the outside backswing position with the racket tip raised slightly above the hand. It's good to have a child 'feel' that sequence of events right at the most critical moment. You'd figure a kid like Antony might cotton onto things pretty quick once he feels the flip happening.

The modern forehand trumps the classic forehand every time IF a player has the ability to pull it off. There is no halfway house for me. If you are going to go modern, learn it properly and execute it well.

[don_budge]

Is that excessive low to high or just the spin dial backward rotation before the wiper? I still think that improving the turn and the stance are the first keys and might correct other stuff naturally.

It's funny video. With the shades and the backwards baseball cap one could relegate it to "America's Funniest Home Videos". It is interesting at the same time. One might just take it a bit too seriously. Just because he is hitting some of the points often associated with the "modern forehand". At this point, it most certainly must be considered "all hat and no cattle", as tennis_chiro once said. The first keys are as John points out in the athleticism or rather the lack of it. It looks rote...rehearsed.

Put him through the hockeyscout curriculum of training the athlete for the future. Give him a year of seasoning in that respect. Lots of running and jumping and playing with balls. Develop the athlete...parallel to the tennis player. Anything said about Anthony at this point is inconclusive. What will matter is the path going forwards. I really don't approve of the footwork at all. He must be taught to step to the ball before all of the modern mumbo jumbo. Open stance...semi-open. The transfer of weight is the single most important facet of anything in sports. He must step to the ball before all of the twisting...and shouting.

I would prescribe lots of basketball, soccer, skating and skiing. Balance. Nimble movement. Footwork. Then get your ass in position. He is standing straight up instead of being down in a nice athletic position. Don't tell him I said so. He's a little kid. Guide him and teach him to play. It will make a man of him. It is a great submission. An interesting video...possibly to take more seriously in the future. Maybe when he is fourteen and as mean as a cat.

[arturohernandez]

It's funny video. With the shades and the backwards baseball cap one could relegate it to "America's Funniest Home Videos". It is interesting at the same time. One might just take it a bit too seriously. Just because he is hitting some of the points often associated with the "modern forehand". At this point, it most certainly must be considered "all hat and no cattle", as tennis_chiro once said. The first keys are as John points out in the athleticism or rather the lack of it. It looks rote...rehearsed.

Put him through the hockeyscout curriculum of training the athlete for the future. Give him a year of seasoning in that respect. Lots of running and jumping and playing with balls. Develop the athlete...parallel to the tennis player. Anything said about Anthony at this point is inconclusive. What will matter is the path going forwards. I really don't approve of the footwork at all. He must be taught to step to the ball before all of the modern mumbo jumbo. Open stance...semi-open. The transfer of weight is the single most important facet of anything in sports. He must step to the ball before all of the twisting...and shouting.

I would prescribe lots of basketball, soccer, skating and skiing. Balance. Nimble movement. Footwork. Then get your ass in position. He is standing straight up instead of being down in a nice athletic position. Don't tell him I said so. He's a little kid. Guide him and teach him to play. It will make a man of him. It is a great submission. An interesting video...possibly to take more seriously in the future. Maybe when he is fourteen and as mean as a cat.

Sorry to sound like a broken record here. But what is missing are videos of children getting older and then looking at how their forehands progress from young to old. I know that most academies and pros have a good idea of what the progression is.

I am a little worried that trying to hit an adult shot as a child has its pitfalls. What would be great would be to see any pro with an ATP forehand hitting forehands as a 10 year old. Would it look like Anthony's or not? Is there only one route to a nice "modern" adult forehand? Or are there multiple routes?