New Teaching Method: Extreme Slice Model(s)

[stroke]

Stotty, not surprised at all even though I am not a tennis coach like you.

[stotty]

I personally think Novak's and Rafael's slice bh is not very good, particularly by the Roger gold standard of modern slice. And I think with both Novak and Rafael, it starts with their way less than ideal grip. Both use way too much of a forehand type grip, not close to the Roger ideal continental grip.

I can never quite make out where Novak's heel pad is...hard to tell. I tend to agree Novak and Rafa's sliced backhand don't compare to Roger, but then most two-handers don't have great sliced backhands.

It's interesting that when I coach two-handed boys I can get them to hit fluent one-handed slices and, if seen in isolation, you would have no idea they were two-handed players. Start kids young with sliced backhands and fluency is absolutely achievable. These kids aren't in the same hemisphere as Novak or Rafa but in a way that highlights my point. The hours Novak and Rafa put in practicing sliced backhands was probably negligible compared the hours put into their two-handed drives. So the end result is what you see.

The strange thing is with girls it doesn't quite work out like it does with boys. Once girls have adopted a two-hander, they find it way more difficult than boys to cultivate a fluent sliced backhands. Not impossible...just more difficult for girls.

[doctorhl]

I personally think Novak's and Rafael's slice bh is not very good, particularly by the Roger gold standard of modern slice. And I think with both Novak and Rafael, it starts with their way less than ideal grip. Both use way too much of a forehand type grip, not close to the Roger ideal continental grip.

Totally agree on the grip. I had to over close the racket face with a full backhand grip to try to learn the steeper angle of attack. Then I was able to work back to the continental grip to hit the extreme slice. I do find that the extreme slice has a smaller strike zone than the classic slice strike zone.

[stroke]

I personally think Novak's and Rafael's slice bh is not very good, particularly by the Roger gold standard of modern slice. And I think with both Novak and Rafael, it starts with their way less than ideal grip. Both use way too much of a forehand type grip, not close to the Roger ideal continental grip.

[stotty]

I just wonder where Novak's sliced backhand fits in the equation? Generally speaking he has a classic finish to his follow through. He tends to have a lower take back compared to other players and a less steep downward swing. I find it less effective than many other sliced backhands on the tour and wonder if it is too classic for the modern game. Or maybe it was under practiced in his formative years and hasn't developed into the shot it might have. I find it a passable sliced backhand but it doesn't do much to disrupt opponents like, say, Dan Evans or Roger Federer's can.

I have a classic sliced backhand but when I experiment with extreme sliced technique it is easy to see how how useful it is when dealing with certain types of incoming balls.

[doctorhl]

flaflat: In my experience the value of the extreme slice, although it is harder to time, is its low bounce and more importantly, subsequent effect of throwing off the timing of the opponent. “ Further, since both the vertical and horizontal speed of the ball are decreased, the overall speed of the ball is also decreased”. This change of speed is what makes it so effective.

[johnyandell]

Peter,
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you are liking the series.

[tta123]

If I were editing your work I would add that the racquet path is related to the trajectory of the ball that is being hit. The reason that the racquet path is more vertically down is that the path of the ball received is more upwards. You can see that in the clip of KR that you used. The ball he is hitting in the clip is dropping and so his racquet path is more horizontal. Other than this I lover these video lessons that you create and I think with a little more detail you could take many of them to another level.

Sincerely

Peter C

[samuroo]

When a ball with underspin impacts the ground, the ball skids across the surface of the court, and the court exerts a kinetic friction force on the ball in direction opposite that of the overall horizontal motion of the ball. Since the ball has backward rotation, the kinetic friction force must act for a longer period of time on the ball before it will start rotating forward. This increases the net friction force on the ball and reduces its horizontal speed by a greater amount than flat and topspin shots. As a result the ratio of vertical speed to horizontal speed of the ball is higher after the bounce than before it. Thus the ball leaves the ground with an angle greater than its angle of incident. Further, since both the vertical and horizontal speed of the ball are decreased, the overall speed of the ball is also decreased.

Is this wrong?

[johnyandell]

Good question! The ball will actually stay lower. But as the series say classic slice is better for the majority on the majority of balls!

[samuroo]

Sorry if this is a noob question, but what is the benefit of an extreme slice? The ball seems to float a little more. Swinging so steeply makes it difficult to time. Won't the added spin also make the ball check up more after the bounce? Is the added spin rate really worth it?

[johnyandell]

Thank you!

[jthb1021]

As always I love the checkpoints! Clear concise and solid. Thanks John

[doctorhl]

I love the checkpoints on the extreme slice. I could have used this shot 40 years ago. The better amateur players at that time came close to duplicating the modern penetrating, offensive extreme slice. This was just before the
post Borg era when racket technology and teaching methods enabled the use of heavy topspin backhands at the amateur level.

[johnyandell]

Would love to discuss my latest article, "New Teaching Method: Extreme Slice Model(s)"