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2021 Miami Open...ATP 1000...Miami, Florida USA

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  • #46
    DB: experiment with that left arm mindset on the pitch/ chip and putt as well. However, barely perceptible, off center strikes brings in the conundrum of left and right hand pressure contributions to correct in golf (and maybe even in tennis 2 hand backhands!). Variable pressure on bottom 3 fingers of left hand slightly opens/ closes the face at address and through contact. Bottom 3 finger pressure variability on single right hand for tennis has similar effects. How much to apply? Perhaps Hogan’s measurement rule of “enough to neither harm nor let escape a bird in your hand” is sufficient........difficult to maintain with the non-dominant hand in golf and difficult with single, dominant hand in tennis for those tense, match situations. Many people let abnormal hand pressure developed by off center strikes affect pressure in other parts of their arm which affects the natural arm swing speed. Federer seems to be the poster child for hard hands to soft hands interchange....most likely keenly developed because he doesn’t seem to ever have many off center strikes. Why?, because of incredible footwork which keeps him balanced enough to set up the ball directly in the center of his strike zone. It would be interesting to see variability in his groundstroke contact points from a ball machine if the computer could generate data for his ideal strike zone. This rambling can degenerate into an argument for “feel” versus “ analytical” golf/tennis( other sports as well).



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    • #47
      Originally posted by stotty View Post
      Big test for Sinner versus RBA. RBA being a great benchmark for any player looking to learn where he stands in the game.
      Could not agree more Stotty. I may have spoke too soon about that baton being dropped.
      Last edited by stroke; 04-02-2021, 12:07 PM.

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      • #48
        I missed the Sinner v RBA match which looked close by the scoreline. I might have to watch the replay. Miami isn't the best for viewing live in my part of the world. I really like the look of Sinner. He's not your typical Italian in terms of temperament. The new kids are hitting the ball so clean and well and I detect they are better at the net than players only a few years older. There are some signs volleys might start featuring more in tennis. They have to when you think about it as the game has nowhere else to go if it is to move on.
        Stotty

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        • #49
          Sinner on his forehand has the same kind of pop along with taking it early as Fed. He also does the same thing off his top shelf 2 handed backhand. His movement is top shelf. His mental disposition seems as if it could not be better. And he is only 19.

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          • #50
            Sustainability...Consistency is the Hallmark of Great Champions

            I hate to be the one to break it to you stroke. None of these guys have the "Hallmark of Great Champions". At least to this point not one of them has demonstrated it for any amount of meaningful time. Zverev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Rublev to name just a few. Karatsev fell to the next potential Greatest of All Time. Every single one of these guys get to a point and then they plateau. Sinner will be the next. He is only nineteen. The target is too much of a cross to bear. Hubert Herkacz is now knocking on the door. He has worked long and hard to get to the top. So have all of these guys. What they find out once they got to the top is that there is nothing left. What does it take to stay on top? So far we have seen that none of these guys know what it takes.
            don_budge
            Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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            • #51
              Originally posted by doctorhl View Post
              DB: experiment with that left arm mindset on the pitch/ chip and putt as well. However, barely perceptible, off center strikes brings in the conundrum of left and right hand pressure contributions to correct in golf (and maybe even in tennis 2 hand backhands!). Variable pressure on bottom 3 fingers of left hand slightly opens/ closes the face at address and through contact. Bottom 3 finger pressure variability on single right hand for tennis has similar effects. How much to apply? Perhaps Hogan’s measurement rule of “enough to neither harm nor let escape a bird in your hand” is sufficient........difficult to maintain with the non-dominant hand in golf and difficult with single, dominant hand in tennis for those tense, match situations. Many people let abnormal hand pressure developed by off center strikes affect pressure in other parts of their arm which affects the natural arm swing speed. Federer seems to be the poster child for hard hands to soft hands interchange....most likely keenly developed because he doesn’t seem to ever have many off center strikes. Why?, because of incredible footwork which keeps him balanced enough to set up the ball directly in the center of his strike zone. It would be interesting to see variability in his groundstroke contact points from a ball machine if the computer could generate data for his ideal strike zone. This rambling can degenerate into an argument for “feel” versus “ analytical” golf/tennis( other sports as well).
              Yeah...grip pressure may just be the biggest killer of racquet head/club head speed. Thank you for that reminder. It is human nature to hit. It is Divine to swing.
              don_budge
              Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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              • #52
                RBA was a very tough out for Sinner yesterday. Sinner did not have one of his best days, he lost the 1st set, which he knows then what he is up against to turn the tide vs RBA, a pro's pro in the mold of David Ferrer. Sinner fought hard and hard hatted his way through the 2nd. He found his game, and played his best game of the match when he broke at love for the match. That was impressive. Sinner to me is the 2nd favorite for FO behind that guy that has won several.
                Last edited by stroke; 04-03-2021, 03:47 AM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by don_budge View Post

                  It is human nature to hit. It is Divine to swing.
                  Please copyright that quote if it is yours.....brilliant!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by doctorhl View Post

                    Please copyright that quote if it is yours.....brilliant!
                    I made it up on the spot...then went out and shot 37 on the first nine holes I played this year. Thank you doctorhl! Happy Easter...I've been thinking a lot about that Perfect Son.

                    don_budge
                    Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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                    • #55
                      Tremendous ball striking by both players. Hurkacz has a great serve and service motion.

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                      • #56
                        Great win for Hugo. Sinner played well, great ball striking, but just too many errors. Sinner hits the ball so hard off both sides and takes it on early.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by stroke View Post
                          RBA was a very tough out for Sinner yesterday. Sinner did not have one of his best days, he lost the 1st set, which he knows then what he is up against to turn the tide vs RBA, a pro's pro in the mold of David Ferrer. Sinner fought hard and hard hatted his way through the 2nd. He found his game, and played his best game of the match when he broke at love for the match. That was impressive. Sinner to me is the 2nd favorite for FO behind that guy that has won several.
                          I just keep coming back to the same thing with the modern junior. No variety. These guys just learn to bang the ball and there is nothing else. No volleys, no slice, no offspeed stuff. Just rip, rip and rip. That works for a while but at the very top it does not. Look at what Barty was doing to Andreescu. She was slicing her around the court and making her hit all kinds of offspeed stuff. Imagine Edberg out there playing the men's final. Even if he doesn't come in on every shot. He is going to keep changing the pace and making the other player play inside the court. Hurkacz is 6'5". You cannot hit through this guy. You have to hit him below the knees, off to the side, get him off balance.

                          Sinner fell into the modern trap. Let's bang our way to the top until it doesn't work. At 19, the big 3 and any old schooler would have made the big guy an express lunch order. No more than 1.25 hours. Max!

                          Hurkacz played so smart. He played within his limitations. Made people hit through him. He even sliced when necessary. By playing his very clear game he exposed everyone else's lack of game plan.

                          It's robot city out there. Then there is Barty. All she needs is a topspin 1HBH. It would be Henin all over again. Except Barty has a much better serve and a real net game.

                          Sorry guys. The most exciting young player now is not a man. The men just look like carbon copies.

                          I think all players should just go play cricket for a year. Then they might look like a complete tennis player. And that, in today's game, would be Ash Barty.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post

                            I just keep coming back to the same thing with the modern junior. No variety. These guys just learn to bang the ball and there is nothing else. No volleys, no slice, no offspeed stuff. Just rip, rip and rip. That works for a while but at the very top it does not. Look at what Barty was doing to Andreescu. She was slicing her around the court and making her hit all kinds of offspeed stuff. Imagine Edberg out there playing the men's final. Even if he doesn't come in on every shot. He is going to keep changing the pace and making the other player play inside the court. Hurkacz is 6'5". You cannot hit through this guy. You have to hit him below the knees, off to the side, get him off balance.

                            Sinner fell into the modern trap. Let's bang our way to the top until it doesn't work. At 19, the big 3 and any old schooler would have made the big guy an express lunch order. No more than 1.25 hours. Max!

                            Hurkacz played so smart. He played within his limitations. Made people hit through him. He even sliced when necessary. By playing his very clear game he exposed everyone else's lack of game plan.

                            It's robot city out there. Then there is Barty. All she needs is a topspin 1HBH. It would be Henin all over again. Except Barty has a much better serve and a real net game.

                            Sorry guys. The most exciting young player now is not a man. The men just look like carbon copies.

                            I think all players should just go play cricket for a year. Then they might look like a complete tennis player. And that, in today's game, would be Ash Barty.
                            Well played arturohernandez. Hubert Hurkacz is another out of the cookie cutter mode. Perhaps there was a takeaway from this tournament in a couple of senses. First of all, neither Daniil Medvedev or Stefanos Tsitsipas appear ready or mature enough to take over tournaments and enter them saying "there are 123 losers here and me". Jimmy Connors was once credited with such bravado. The other thing is that none of the other "flash in the pan" wonderkinds seem to be able to sustain their flashes of brilliance. There is a long, long list here in that regard.

                            The match up of Hubert Hurkacz and Stefanos Tsitsipas is particularly curious. Tsitsipas was once quoted as saying that he like to think his way through matches but he has basically submitted to the mass fascination of hitting the ball hard and harder. Basically a mirror image of Denis Shapovalov only perhaps a bit more mature. This doesn't bode well for the future of tennis. These players like Jannik Sinner get to a level and they seem to lose interest. After all...you can basically rework their rather simplistic tactical games only so much and it gets boring even to the player. I think Alexander Zverev is a perfect example of this. He got to a point where he enjoyed some success at the highest level of the game and then he seemed to lose motivation. I think he is actually bored trying to go out and hit his way through every single opponent. This type of tennis in not sustainable.

                            In my teaching paradigm for coaching tennis I have made Roger Federer the "Living Proof" and he is an example of one of the very most important facets of said paradigm. The guy never lost interest. He hit the ground running back around 2001 and had the type of game that still had remnants of the old classical game that was designed for playing different opponents under different conditions. He had the ability to adapt and "evolve". Evolution is a long process and I believe he continued to evolve even up to this point as he struggles to stay in the game due to his age...and mileage on his body. No other players have this type of ability to adapt and it will be very interesting how far even Novak Djokovic and Fafa Nadal will be able to stay interested. Even now they are not playing the Miami event and it could be due to lack of interest.

                            The men do look like carbon copies or cookie cutter players. There really hasn't been any evolution in the game in the last how many years? In fact...it has actually devolved as entire facets of the game have disappeared and have become extinct for all intents and purposes.
                            don_budge
                            Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by don_budge View Post

                              Well played arturohernandez. Hubert Hurkacz is another out of the cookie cutter mode. Perhaps there was a takeaway from this tournament in a couple of senses. First of all, neither Daniil Medvedev or Stefanos Tsitsipas appear ready or mature enough to take over tournaments and enter them saying "there are 123 losers here and me". Jimmy Connors was once credited with such bravado. The other thing is that none of the other "flash in the pan" wonderkinds seem to be able to sustain their flashes of brilliance. There is a long, long list here in that regard.

                              The match up of Hubert Hurkacz and Stefanos Tsitsipas is particularly curious. Tsitsipas was once quoted as saying that he like to think his way through matches but he has basically submitted to the mass fascination of hitting the ball hard and harder. Basically a mirror image of Denis Shapovalov only perhaps a bit more mature. This doesn't bode well for the future of tennis. These players like Jannik Sinner get to a level and they seem to lose interest. After all...you can basically rework their rather simplistic tactical games only so much and it gets boring even to the player. I think Alexander Zverev is a perfect example of this. He got to a point where he enjoyed some success at the highest level of the game and then he seemed to lose motivation. I think he is actually bored trying to go out and hit his way through every single opponent. This type of tennis in not sustainable.

                              In my teaching paradigm for coaching tennis I have made Roger Federer the "Living Proof" and he is an example of one of the very most important facets of said paradigm. The guy never lost interest. He hit the ground running back around 2001 and had the type of game that still had remnants of the old classical game that was designed for playing different opponents under different conditions. He had the ability to adapt and "evolve". Evolution is a long process and I believe he continued to evolve even up to this point as he struggles to stay in the game due to his age...and mileage on his body. No other players have this type of ability to adapt and it will be very interesting how far even Novak Djokovic and Fafa Nadal will be able to stay interested. Even now they are not playing the Miami event and it could be due to lack of interest.

                              The men do look like carbon copies or cookie cutter players. There really hasn't been any evolution in the game in the last how many years? In fact...it has actually devolved as entire facets of the game have disappeared and have become extinct for all intents and purposes.
                              So maybe we just need a return to the classics. I mean, Bruno Mars, is busy sounding like he is in the 80's or 70's. The music was good and the sound is well received. It all goes back to Tilden anyway. As the rebranded HockeyScout noted, these guys would not be able to do the most basic thing out there. The old coaches would run them ragged without any fancy technology. If we could just have real full court tennis, then the innovation would come. I think we have to go back to go forward and right now we are stuck in neutral. The modern game, neutralize, and then hope you don't get bored. These players need a good stick shift to really feel the road.

                              BTW, notice that Shapo is learning to slice now. Tsitsipas needs to fix his serve. Medvedev is trying to run like Maradonna but is Michael Jordan.

                              Federer is unique because he is able to transcend tennis across generations. He has great fundamentals and then adapts them. I still use him as a visual model for just about everything. He is like a living textbook. I don't think we will have another one of those for a long while.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post
                                I just keep coming back to the same thing with the modern junior. No variety. These guys just learn to bang the ball and there is nothing else. No volleys, no slice, no offspeed stuff. Just rip, rip and rip.
                                Here's the other thing. The men are basically playing the junior game. There is absolutely no room for evolution. Once a junior, always a junior. Once a player is hooked on a ranking system any courage to take a chance and evolve becomes a monumental decision. Nobody wants to go one step backwards to go two steps forwards. The uncertainty is just too daunting for the less mature mind. This is a huge drawback in introducing the game too early in a child's development. The player clings to that two handed backhand like a toddler clings to his "blankey".

                                The whole thing has been rigged. I have been saying for years that the coaching was hijacked back in the mid-eighties. This the logical fruition of what took place back then. Too much engineering certainly prohibits runaway evolution.
                                don_budge
                                Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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