New Teaching Method: The Modern Slice

[johnyandell]

Would love to hear your thoughts on my latest article, "New Teaching Method: The Modern Slice"

[stroke]

I was just wondering who is the architect of this modern slice? Was it Fed? Probably. John alluded to McEnroe with his ""truncated " follow through in part 2 of this series. He had to me by far the best slice backhand pre Fed.

[seano]

I always enjoyed watching Brian Gottfried's and Victor Pecci's slice backhands.

[johnyandell]

Seano,
Wish I had some video...

[doctorhl]

Check out Stroke Archives/modern legends/ McEnroe in this website. As Stroke indicates, McEnroe hits a truncated extreme slice. Perhaps that was all that was needed to counter the lower spin ratios and lower bounces of the Masters players in those clips.

[stroke]

Check out Stroke Archives/modern legends/ McEnroe in this website. As Stroke indicates, McEnroe hits a truncated extreme slice. Perhaps that was all that was needed to counter the lower spin ratios and lower bounces of the Masters players in those clips.

Good call. McEnroe definitely was right there to me with this "modern slice".

[stotty]

I thought McEnroe had a great slice backhand because he would lower his take back for a lower balls, which allowed him to cut inside and really knife lower backhands with precision and strength. I used to really like Pat Cash's sliced approach shots too. There were bucket loads of good sliced backhands back then.

[johnyandell]

So guys there were a couple of glitches in the video piece. Fixed now!

[ten1050]

Hello John, In the 1930’s and 40’s, a slice backhand with excessive spin was called a backhand chop. Dick Skeen, a teaching and playing professional for decades, was a master of the backhand chop. He toured with Budge and Vines and coached Jack Kramer and Pauline Betz. Skeen’s backhand was much like Federer’s backhand slice. It is a shame that Skeen did not live to see Federer play, he would have seen a younger version of himself.

Sincerely,

Norman Ashbrooke

[johnyandell]

Norman,
Too bad there isn't really video history of all this!!

[doctorhl]

John, thanks so much for this article. I finally have been able to hit some extreme slices. A couple of observations at the Senior level.

1.The extreme slice kept the ball bounce significantly lower than the classic slice and this low bounce made it difficult for the opponent to dig up and hit an offensive return.
2. If I wanted to hit an aggressive shot, but found myself just slightly out of position when hitting the extreme slice, there were no bad consequences. If I wanted to be aggressive and hit a topspin backhand and found myself slightly out of position, there were real bad consequences. Senior play is all about adapting to out of position play with aging bodies.
3.The extreme slice required a downward chop with a long follow through so that there was no deceleration. I now understand why that long, accelerating follow through required the non racket arm to be thrown back for body balance and to keep the shoulders square along with the throw back of the racket arm to give that Federer “ ski jump” look.
4. This same motion has helped me in the backhand, slice approach.
5. This same motion , although prone to error because of its length, has helped me crush off paced, backhand volleys.
6. For all the reasons stated above, I am tempted to learn this motion on the forehand if the skid can be duplicated.
7. Can anyone direct me to video of the extreme FOREHAND slice. I have seen it used successfully at the amateur level on clay, but can’t find any video.

[stroke]

John, thanks so much for this article. I finally have been able to hit some extreme slices. A couple of observations at the Senior level.

1.The extreme slice kept the ball bounce significantly lower than the classic slice and this low bounce made it difficult for the opponent to dig up and hit an offensive return.
2. If I wanted to hit an aggressive shot, but found myself just slightly out of position when hitting the extreme slice, there were no bad consequences. If I wanted to be aggressive and hit a topspin backhand and found myself slightly out of position, there were real bad consequences. Senior play is all about adapting to out of position play with aging bodies.
3.The extreme slice required a downward chop with a long follow through so that there was no deceleration. I now understand why that long, accelerating follow through required the non racket arm to be thrown back for body balance and to keep the shoulders square along with the throw back of the racket arm to give that Federer “ ski jump” look.
4. This same motion has helped me in the backhand, slice approach.
5. This same motion , although prone to error because of its length, has helped me crush off paced, backhand volleys.
6. For all the reasons stated above, I am tempted to learn this motion on the forehand if the skid can be duplicated.
7. Can anyone direct me to video of the extreme FOREHAND slice. I have seen it used successfully at the amateur level on clay, but can’t find any video.

I think McEnroe may be the best model for this extreme slice at the recreational level, with his truncated follow through. McEnroe seems to have all day on his slice and he can really knife it, and like Fed, throw in the drop shot at any time with basicly the same motion. Another benefit to me of this extreme slice is what you alluded to at senior level, adapting to at least slightly out of position play. With this extreme slice, it seems to me less shoulder turn is needed vs the traditional slice, and that can be very helpful.

[doctorhl]

Thanks stroke!

[stotty]

Another good article which confirms my thoughts about the influences of the extreme downward swing on the follow through. Interesting that Roger utilises both classic and modern but mostly modern whereas Novak also uses both also but mostly follows through in the classic style. Not that Novak uses slice as much or is as dependent on it as Roger.

Never noticed how much Roger breaks his elbow at the end of the take back. Seems more than most.

[don_budge]

"The Tale of Two Articles"...don_budge

"Concluding that his game didn't need radical change, he decided three aspects needed fine tuning. First, he had to cut, out lapses that cost him easy points. Second, he had to harden his serve, particularly his second delivery.

Third, he had to improve his lob. "I soon found out in pro tennis that you were dead without a good lob--by far the most underrated shot in the game."

This was a must to enable Laver to maintain the pressure on his opponents, who were, to a man, expert commanders of the net. Soon Laver had mastered offensive as well as defensive lobs, and from the backhand as well as the forehand.

By watching the superlative lobber Segura at work, eventually Laver also came to learn the art of "rafter lobbing." This was feeding the ball through the low-hanging beams of the little arenas that the pros were forced to frequent.

Laver explained how one night, when playing at a particularly low-slung venue--a converted armory--he beat Gimeno and hit a lob that "wandered among the girders as though directed by radar."

A gorgeous series on a glorious shot. The slice backhand. The biggest tactical tool in the bag of a tennis player. As if a tennis player has a bag, as does a golfer. The series on "The Forgotten Era of Tennis" is a beauty as well. It might be titled "Traditional Thought in Tennis" as well. Such is the parallel nature of the themes. The realisation on Rod Laver's part that he needed to improve his lob to get to the next level is another white light moment in the history of tennisplayer.net. Absolutely astounding in its clarity in differentiating what is going on in tennis. For him to recall a lob of all shots that "wandered among the girders as though directed by radar" is a very telling sentence indeed. Don't forget...the backhand lob is a slice backhand. Same is true for a backhand volley. It is, for all intents and purposes, a truncated slice backhand.

With regards to Rod Laver's epiphany regarding his need to improve his lobbing. In golf, all shots are played with underpin and this is only because the club head is always in a descending trajectory on the ball at impact. If we look at the "racquets" in a golf player's bag the irons...they range from a pitching wedge which is somewhere in the vicinity of 46 degrees to the 2-iron which is perhaps 17 degrees. The 9-iron is 42 degrees, the 8-iron is 46 degrees and so on and so forth down to the longer irons. This difference in angle or loft accounts for two things...trajectory and distance. Given that the swing is the same with all irons. Essentially a tennis player has a bag of irons in his arsenal and he manipulates the angel of the racquet face as well as the steepness of the swing to the ball to create different amounts of spin, trajectory and velocity. Laver was missing a pitching wedge or he needed to improve his pitching wedge play as an essential factor for him to improve. The high lofted, low velocity, radar guided ball through the girders. That was old school tennis. I always make the claim that I am a great lobber of the tennis ball. This is perhaps a forgotten shot in tennis as much as the slice backhand has taken more of backseat. Doubles used to be an integral part of the tennis tour and I am sure that Rod Laver was also playing doubles on the tour as well. He had ample opportunity and reason to improve this particular aspect of his game. Wonderful observation by the author. With regard to stroke's observations...John McEnroe is a self-professed Rod Laver admirer and you can see it in his game. Off of the backhand side Johnny Boy had every shot in the book of of the slice backhand.

So johnyandell has so far differentiated the slice backhand into two categories. The classic and the modern. That's a great start. Bill Tilden differentiated the slice backhand into two categories as well. He called them the slice and the chop. I will leave it to you to educate yourself on what he had to say about the two. But following along with the two video articles so far we can sum up this much at least...the amount of spin, the trajectory and the velocity of the ball is a equation of a couple of different factors. The angle of the racquet face at impact and the trajectory of the swing. The steepness. I think Tilden differentiated that the chop had a swing angle of at least 45 degrees. Not sure about that but you get the picture.

One thing that this series might take into consideration is the different shots and patterns that the modern player achieves with his technique compared with the classic player's repetoire. The more extreme grips might be part of this explanation as well. Does the grip have the effect of "de-lofting" the racquet? Is that the reason or one of the reasons for the more pronounced steepness in the backswing and follow-through? It is a possibility.

The slice backhand is perhaps the most versatile club in the tennis players bag of tricks...or his tactical options. I'll never forget Fransisco Gonzales of Ohio State using a technique that I hadn't seen much of before against me. He would chop so severely down on the ball and try to land the ball so close to the net that it would bounce back over onto his side if he timed it just perfectly. That is a slice backhand. I find Roger Federer's genius these days owe itself largely to his use of the slice backhand. The range of his trajectories and the use of spin allows him to control and manipulate his opponent by playing superb tactical defense which essentially is a subtle offence in his ability to go from playing defense to offence. A page out of Bill Tilden's book for sure.

Roger uses his slice backhand to his advantage starting with the return of serve. Rather than trying to be offensive on the return...more often that not at crunch time when the match is hanging in the balance he is resorting to a shot that might either float towards the opponents baseline with more trajectory and less spin or he might go for the low angle with more velocity and more spin. He does this with manipulation of the racquet face and the angle of the swing into the ball. It would be interesting to take the time to individually look at the tendencies of his swings to try and understand which angles work best on which shots. The question remains...why the follow through with the tip of the racquet head pointing towards the ground? What happens when he varies his deliveries? Is the follow through influenced by different objectives?

Great article. Great two articles actually. "The Tale of Two Articles."