Tour Strokes: Dominic Thiem Second Serve

[johnyandell]

Would love to discuss my latest article, "Tour Strokes: Dominic Thiem Second Serve"

[doctorhl]

Fantastic analysis of small differences. Federer is the “ go to “ model as you said for most of us. Recreational players’ lower level of fitness requires replicating the most efficient model.

[jeremy93]

Great article as always. I think it’s worth noting that if the ball toss is in the right place, it makes the kick serve swing path occur somewhat naturally. I think you may have mentioned that as well actually.

[johnyandell]

Jeremy that's what I think. The ball position naturally creates the swing pattern maybe with a little help from the image of hitting radically up

[stotty]

Nice article. I have always felt Dominic's serve needs better sway/weight transfer...rhythm.

Interesting to look at these small differences and see how they all add up. Dominic has a terrific serve but not as good as Roger or Pete who can hit all the spots and serve better tactically. Maybe a tweak here and a tweak there could make all the difference.

I have often taught the kick serve by...temporarily...getting players to follow through to the right side so they get a feel for the upward and outward action. It can give students the 'feeling' of the mechanics involved. Once they grasp this I encourage a more orthodox follow through...seems to work. Happy to be shot down if anyone profoundly disagrees.

[johnyandell]

My only thought would be to video the angle of the arm in relation to the baseline. Going too much to the right could decrease power...angle should be like 30 to 45 degrees.

[postpre]

John,

Thiem's ball toss has less arc (curve) compared to Federer. As his tossing arm seems to key off the right net post (deuce side), I don't see it as a circular toss. Would the net post toss be better suited for power (or at least easier to execute), while circular toss of Federer/Sampras better suited for heaviness?

Futher, I don't see a lot of tall guys implementing circular tosses. Is there a point where the circular toss could be a deteriment especially for taller players who can do a ton of damage with their flat first serves?

-postpre

P.S. I noticed that Thiem has a bit of spin on his toss. My son tosses this way, but it's what he's comfortable with. I've debated on insisting he change it, but as far as I can tell good servers vary on the amount of spin (or no spin) they put on the toss.

[johnyandell]

Yeah good questions. Delpo has a straight up and down toss. I think there is a relationship between the arc toss and the body turn, but the point is to get the ball to the right place, right? If he isn't having a problem with that I wouldn't worry. Not sure about the differences in power and heaviness--so many variables there starting with ability. I do think it's about the path of the racket to the ball and out into the court for both.

[J011yroger]

My only thought would be to video the angle of the arm in relation to the baseline. Going too much to the right could decrease power...angle should be like 30 to 45 degrees.

On the 2nd only? What is the angle range on the first?

I feel like too many players swing more straight at the ball than is optimal which doesn't allow the racquet head to rotate through the ball and they end up pancaking it or getting the WTA like half ISR/Pronation.

J

[johnyandell]

About 30 degrees. 2nd closer to 45.

[J011yroger]

About 30 degrees. 2nd closer to 45.

30 degrees to the ball right? Not the baseline?

Looks like it's "bring your protractor to work day" for Jolly.

Thanks, as always.

J

[johnyandell]

To the baseline.