The 4 Pillars of the Type III ATP Forehand

[hockeyscout]

I am so glad you are going take this on. Please include the initiation of the forward swing from the backswing as this is perhaps the moment of truth...even as compared to the strike of the ball. The entire key to the golf swing and I suspect a key to the tennis swing also, is the transition from the backswing to the forwards motion. Thanks very much for agreeing to take this on. I believe that this just might be a big moment for you and the crew here at tennisplayer.net. Some of the posters have related the problems they have experienced with this type of forehand and this article with video may just cure what ails them...Dr. Gordon aka my good friend Brian!

There is no such thing as a back-swing when you are teaching mechanics of hockey, tennis, golf, MMA – whatever - I am dismissive of that term. Creates confusion. I never use that terminology whatsoever - hate it.

Number one mistake that hinders any type of stroke development is soft/passive "backswing" mechanics.

I call this all "load” mechanics."

I rate a lot of players 2/10 in this area, and no emphasis is ever placed on it. A guy that was really well trained in this area is a player you did not like Andre Agassi - and his father was a professional Olympic feather-weight fighter - Andre's ability to prep before the ball even bounced was a difference maker.

So, I take a cart - 600 balls, pound them right into an athletes feet hard and with a lot of pace and tell them to quickly get to a dynamic prepped position loaded position. I don't let them hit the ball - its all about 600 reps of getting to an absolutely loaded position where I will then be able to then set them up to achieve the best hip rotational speed possible ... rhythm will come naturally in the drills/games when when you first teach them the right positioning to flow out correctly out of (which is where Mike Agassi was successful as a coach).

So, let's talk a bit about the ribs/breathing because that is important. I am 47 - I do not even have to work out to have good base level functional useful strength. Why? I am 6'4 and have a huge wide ribcage. So, I know how to use it, and generating power easily. No matter how old I get, I still maintain that strength and it never dips on me. Old man power I call it - as you get older you learn to breathe, relax and become more aware/focused. You need to - the big trick is to train that into a young athlete to be less chaotic in the initiation motion and not fight/force/jerk/strain but flow.

At our age Don_Budge - we are experienced enough to understand the importance of being purposeful. With kids - that is a challenge to instill - but, possible.

So, look at Moe Norman/Babe Ruth/Mark McGuire/Harmon Killebrew - loading to power is easy for them - they can leverage off their ribcage, and if you ever notice their bellybutton positioning is always perfect - well - we discussed that a long time ago about the correlation of bellybutton to the net tape and how that gets balls over the net.

The worst injury a hockey/MMA fighter can is a concussion - but, their are a lot of guys performing that should not be performing with that issue unfortunately. But, ribcage is the kiss of death - you want to see the importance of what I talk about remember what it was like with a rib muscle pull or a broken rib. I remember one guy playing through a broken rib and a flak jacket in the NHL Playoffs (Kevin Lowe) - not the best player but he is in the hall of fame because he was able to do that kind of thing and has five Stanley Cup's to his credit as a result. Just a beast in the defensive end - but, his rib cage was like Ray Bourque's/Bobby Hull's/Gordie Howe's and just not of this earth.

Now, I know you are not 6'4 – and built like Babe Ruth or Moe Norman – however, be like Pavarotti and leverage that rib cage. It's the best analogy. Mike Agassi's legacy - he trained a boxers prep into one of his four kids - 1/4 - like him or hate him Agassi's prep and ability to dissipate force after hitting made him into a very special player despite not having great tools in several performance areas.

Now – if you have a mother with a big rib cage then you are ahead in the power game – after all, athletes learn to breath in the womb. Breathing is the source of power, and you get it from mom at a young age - I got a 14 year old Russian athlete I train from Central Red Army hockey team, and his mama is 5'8 and over 200 pounds - so strong, and her rib cage is like an opera singer. We're developing a lot of things with him, and he is easy to balance out. The kid is 6'1, and has the same build as mom which is a plus. I know he will be durable like Alexander Ovechkin. Talk about Ovechkin - guy never follows a diet, eats what he wants, slightly overweight like Babe Ruth but no one better in terms of a bear rib cage or rate of force production which is the name of the game in this business. His load to power on his one timer slap shot tells you all you need to know - and, of course his front side mechanics look better than anyone else's because he initiates better than anyone else. It's no big magic formula here why his release point looks magical and he can always drive the object (puck, tennis ball, hand, golf ball) on the right line of attack to target (hockey net, head, ribs, golf hole, backline deep, straight line to target ETC).

So, think a little bit like Moe Norman/Bear/Pavorotti/ribcage and generate power.

You're pull mechanics - load mechanics trumps all - front side mechanics we see are just an icing on the cake - build to front side end speed is my philosophy.

Hey, watch the new Mike Tyson video - pretty interesting to see how he has kept the power - it will be interesting to see how he is able to take hard body shots to the ribs at close to 50. I like nothing more than getting into the MMA cage and working on a young guys ribs in sparring - just pick it apart - the guy that did the Rocky Movie where Rocky hit ribs of meat - perfect - love it.

Tyson was so good at softening up guys here in the day when he had old school Cus working with him ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRdZ9RMR2KA

[don_budge]

There is no such thing as a back-swing when you are teaching mechanics of hockey, tennis, golf, MMA – whatever - I am dismissive of that term. Creates confusion. I never use that terminology whatsoever - hate it.

Number one mistake that hinders any type of stroke development is soft/passive "backswing" mechanics.

I call this all "load” mechanics."

I rate a lot of players 2/10 in this area, and no emphasis is ever placed on it. A guy that was really well trained in this area is a player you did not like Andre Agassi - and his father was a professional Olympic feather-weight fighter - Andre's ability to prep before the ball even bounced was a difference maker.

So, I take a cart - 600 balls, pound them right into an athletes feet hard and with a lot of pace and tell them to quickly get to a dynamic prepped position loaded position. I don't let them hit the ball - its all about 600 reps of getting to an absolutely loaded position where I will then be able to then set them up to achieve the best hip rotational speed possible ... rhythm will come naturally in the drills/games when when you first teach them the right positioning to flow out correctly out of (which is where Mike Agassi was successful as a coach).

At our age Don_Budge - we are experienced enough to understand the importance of being purposeful. With kids - that is a challenge to instill - but, possible.

So, look at Moe Norman/Babe Ruth/Mark McGuire/Harmon Killebrew - loading to power is easy for them - they can leverage off their ribcage, and if you ever notice their bellybutton positioning is always perfect - well - we discussed that a long time ago about the correlation of bellybutton to the net tape and how that gets balls over the net.

So, think a little bit like Moe Norman/Bear/Pavorotti/ribcage and generate power.

You're pull mechanics - load mechanics trumps all - front side mechanics we see are just an icing on the cake - build to front side end speed is my philosophy.

Load mechanics it is then. If you wish to speak with me first you must define your terms. I hear you hockeyscout. Thanks for taking the time to share your understanding of the ever so important and necessary "load mechanics". I really like your statement about soft or passive "backswing" mechanics. Stay tuned for Brian Gordon's next offering on this subject...how to load for the forehand. Normally I call this process one of "getting into position" and realize that it is not necessarily correct to call it a "backswing" when referring to this process of loading. I think traditionally it has been referred to as such. But there is nothing soft or passive about this.

I begin to understand my basic deficiency in my golf swing is just this. I batted left handed in baseball but I think I would have felt more natural swinging right-handed in hockey. But I am in the process of trying to distance myself from my left handed tendencies that I required during my ten year stunt back in the tennis biz. Getting myself to think and believe that I am right handed has not been such an easy task. Age plays a huge influence in this. I never learned golf as a young person so all of my game was acquired post forty. Do you realize that if you take something up so late in life it is not etched in your "DNA" as it is when you are a child. You never forget how to ride a bike because most likely you learned as a child. So when they say it is just like riding a bike it isn't so simple if you are a sixty-six year old who learned as a forty years old and then took a ten year sabbatical at fifty-five. It's an interesting challenge. A race against time.

On the one hand it is going to take a reinvestment of the 10,000 hours again since everything has to be relearned. But I don't have 10,000 hours. So to find my way back to where I was with an older body now is well impossible for any ordinary or reasonable person. This is where the importance of being "purposeful" comes in. So thanks again hockeyscout...it was a most interesting and purposeful post you wrote. I will certainly take it to heart. Particularly the line about the hinderance of a soft or passive "backswing" mechanic process. Going forwards it is "load mechanics".

I consciously tell myself that I am right-handed...again. This seems to help me to not be so soft or passive which is actually very close to what I had been doing.

[doctorhl]

DonBudge: There might be a nugget in here somewhere to help with cross dominance effects on thinking and motor movements. Awfully hard to reverse that dominant side feel in your core and hands without out over balancing.

https://www.anythinglefthanded.co.uk/research/left-handed-research-current.html

[don_budge]

Thanks an awful lot for the references here and in the private mail doctorhl. Without hijacking this most excellent thread and interrupting Dr. Gordan, aka Brian, these sorts of things have been personal revelations on a daily basis as I transition my self from my left-handedness to becoming once again...right handed dominant. I have noticed to that my dominant eye has changed to my left eye. Normally I would say that I am right eye dominant. I wonder if this had something to do with these mental gymnastics I am playing with myself.

[doctorhl]

Changing eye dominance? Interesting. Sight a bow or a rifle by closing either eye and the eye dominance thing really becomes obvious. Get a pair of old sunglasses. Put a pencil size round sticker in the center of each lens. Spray paint lenses black and remove stickers. Try hitting a tennis ball on each side. Eye dominance will again become obvious.

[don_budge]

I consciously tell myself that I am right-handed...again. This seems to help me to not be so soft or passive which is actually very close to what I had been doing.

Then suddenly there was the white light of enlightenment. I played 45 holes (two and a half rounds) at two over par. Starting at 7AM I played eighteen holes walking and carrying my bag for the past five days. Sunday I shot even par 72 and Monday I shot two over par 74. Today I started with even par on the front nine but had a lapse of concentration on the back. I think I got tired.

After the round today I went and hit 45 balls and it seemed to me that I was being more aggressive right handed. So I went and got 45 more balls. Firing more from the hip. I'm tired...definitely tired.

[don_budge]

Another 74 this morning. That's four over par for the last 63 holes. My handicap is down to 2.7...how hard I worked this summer. That is the lesson...hard work pays off. Patience pays off. Purposeful pays off. Be it tennis or golf. After all...tennis is only golf on the run.

This story is very much related to the title of this thread. Reading and listening to Dr. Gordon expound up on the "4 Pillars of the Type III ATP Forehand" was another step in the process of my tennis...I mean my golf experience this summer. So much of my work revolved around trying to get the right side of my body to do what it is supposed to do in the swing and I think you might be somewhat surprised how the two motions are intertwined. It has been fascinating and not to mention satisfying.

Now instead of having to do a entire analysis of my swing on every shot I can concentrate on set up and aiming...then pulling the trigger. Looking forwards to Brian's next contribution and in the meantime I will keep you posted on my progress or on my problem.

[don_budge]

A 75 today...three over par. What a journey it has been! Played the last 81 holes at seven over par. My partner is suggesting to me that I need to go lower. Interesting...and why not? It feels as if I am in uncharted waters. Only a week ago I was happy to break 80. I continue to have breakthrough thoughts regarding the swing...the backswing and transition forwards which is what Brian has offered as his next contribution. It's strange...there is this little bit of a nagging thought about myself. Do I belong where I am? Handicap at 2.7 which is about where it was when I quit ten years ago. Shouldn't I feel comfortable and continue to be aggressive about feeling that there is more potential? It is a mental game...that is for sure. In tennis you at least have an opponent to deflect some of the fear and doubt to but with golf it is all directed inwards.

Now I must play mental gymnastics and ask myself...why not? Why shouldn't I have another breakthrough of the same proportion with steady, consistent and purposeful work and training? I am going to start today and ask myself...why not?

[doctorhl]

Now that you have understanding and confidence in swing mechanics:

1. Improve golf setup(equal to footwork prep for tennis groundstroke contact).
2. Shape your drives with a fade or draw and know when to use them (equal to shaping tennis flat, slice or topspin groundstrokes and knowing when to use them).
3.Shaping height and spin in pitches and chips which involves ball checking or releasing after bounce.(equivalent to flat, topspin or kicker bounce on serves).
4.Mind shaping putting paths affected by green slope and grain (equal to mind shaping tennis groundstroke flights affected by environmental factors of wind and humidity).

80 to 75 takes “x” time to achieve. 75 to 70 takes “3x” time to achieve. Mental to motor ratio for improvement changes as score drops.

[doctorhl]

Mental to motor ratio needed for improvement changes as ATP ranking goes from 100 to 50 to 10. Probably not a dime( pence) worth of difference in the effects of motor mechanics on performance of top 10 ATP players as become mostly mental.......... or so it would seem!!

[jrlaible]

[J011yroger]

This was the best tennis article I've read in my life.

Worth the year's subscription alone.

J

[BrianGordon]

This was the best tennis article I've read in my life.

Worth the year's subscription alone.

J

Thanks J - kind words indeed. Needed motivation to assist in the epic struggle to put the next one together!

[J011yroger]

Thanks J - kind words indeed. Needed motivation to assist in the epic struggle to put the next one together!

Sometimes it's so easy and the words just flow, and other times it's a mighty struggle. Much like tennis!

J

[johnyandell]

J--
It helps me if Brian is motivated! Blockbuster final article coming!