Have Tennis Coaches Failed Female Athletes?

[johnyandell]

Let's discuss Dr. Brian Gordon's article, "Have Tennis Coaches Failed Female Athletes?"

[morespin]

Oh my goodness!!! Thank you Brian for biomechanically confirming what I've always believed.

I've been teaching for over 30 years and I've been teaching boys and girls to hit the Type III forehand the whole time.
Not one of the girls I've taught has the Type I forehand. I have always felt that it doesn't matter if you're a girl or a boy. It's all about the technique!

The one girl who recently switched from a one-handed forehand to a two-handed forehand (see the two-handed forehand posts) did so because she just couldn't keep the racket from going too far behind her back. I tried every drill I could think of. We watched videos of her forehand and the forehands of ATP players. We watched videos of Ash Barty and Justine Henin just to prove that a female can hit a Type III forehand.

The two-handed forehand has made a huge difference. The size of her backswing has become much more compact.
She can hit the snot out of the ball. She can hit high and heavy, She can hit "spinny angles." A player can't hit those shots with a Type I forehand. Not to mention that she can handle a big ball from her opponents better because her backswing so compact now.

I remember hearing that "you need to teach girls to play differently from how you teach boys." That may be true in how you relate to girls vs. boys, but I have always just refused to teach girls to play "like girls."

Why can't girls learn the Type III forehand? THERE'S NO REASON! (Sorry for yelling. Sort of.)

I'm not a big fan of the Game Based Approach. To me it can interfere with learning proper biomechanics. I teach proper strokes and I don't allow the kids (boys and girls) to play tournaments or team tennis until their strokes are pretty well ingrained because I have seen kids come back from team tennis or tournaments with jacked up strokes. Granted, I am very fortunate that all of my parents are on board with my philosophy.

My kids have to get a "license" before they are allowed to play any competitive tennis. What I mean by that is that they have to have a good two-handed topspin backhand, a Type III forehand, and a topspin (ish) serve that they can get in about 50% of the time. It has been my experience that under competitive stresses the technique of these shots breaks down and devolves. Backswings get too big. Strokes become pushes. Serves become frying pan dinks.

Has my method created any world class players? Nope. Has my method created any D1 players? Nope. Is that the goal? Not really. Have almost all of my students gotten to the level they aspired to? Absolutely.

[johnyandell]

Great post.

[morespin]

Thanks John. Coming from you that's a big compliment.

[BrianGordon]

Hi morespin - I agree with John - great post. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I particularly relate to your breakdown comments. It is a process to build the stroke into any player and no different for girls. But they can do it - the hard work pays off when you receive a photo (like attached) of a player coming from the depths of the nastiest Type I imaginable (at age 14) to a very respectable Type III in competition. I suspect there are a lot more coaches out there building the "boy" swing into girls - maybe they will share their experiences also... for better or worse.

[J011yroger]

I remember having this discussion last month after your prior article!

I think coaches have 100% done a disservice to girls.

Failed is a strong word since there are still plenty of them playing college and professional tennis.

If womens' tennis died as a sport because they were unable to play well enough to be relevant then the coaches failed.

They certainly did a disservice to the female athletes by not giving them instruction sufficient to reach their potential but if you want to talk about failure, I would say US men's tennis coaching has failed when you have a tossup between Querrey and Isner for the best American male player of the last decade.

J

[morespin]

Thanks Brian.

It's nice to have some science back up what I always thought was a better way to hit the ball.

How about two-handed backhands with a forehand grip with dominant hand? And frying pan grip serves? Those have to be the ugliest strokes ever!!! Will those strokes allow a player to "compete" sooner than waiting until the players develop Type III forehands, backhands with correct grips, and serves with a continental grip and topspin? You betcha. Do these strokes have to be blown up and rebuilt later? Yep. Is it really difficult to do this while the player is trying to do well in tournaments? Yep. Do a lot of players get stuck with jacked up strokes because they didn't learn optimum strokes from the beginning? ABSOLUTELY! (Sorry for yelling again, sort of.)

Good thing there aren't malpractice law suits in tennis.

Do female golfers hit the ball technically differently from how male golfers hit the ball? Do female swimmers have technically different strokes from male swimmers? Do female sprinters run differently from how male sprinters run?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but I would bet that the women don't have substantially different technique from the men. I wonder why. Because optimal technique results in optimal performance regardless of gender!

Ok, I'm done ranting (for now)

[glacierguy]

Hi morespin - agree with your posts. Could you explain what is a "jacked up stroke" please?

[morespin]

Hi Glacierguy,

Think of what happens if you get in a car crash and car gets mangled. Your car is "all jacked up."

That's what can happen to someone's strokes if they play competitively before they've developed and ingrained good mechanics. They're just "surviving" and doing whatever they can to keep the ball in the court by any means necessary.

In my experience very few players' strokes improve due to early competition. What usually happens is they play a match that "counts" and then when I see them for their next lesson we have to fix whatever got "jacked up" due to playing a match that matters.

I coach an 11 year old boy who played team tennis before the pandemic who only has a topspin/kick serve. He has never hit a serve with a frying pan grip. I tried to "program" him so he wouldn't even be able to push a serve with a frying pan grip.

So, I see him after a team tennis match and he says, "Hey Coach, guess what happened in my match?" His tone of voice made it seem like something weird had happened. I asked him what happened and he said, "I pushed my serve because I got nervous and I don't even know how to push!" He tried to push a flat serve with a continental grip. It is really difficult to push a flat serve with an eastern backhand grip!!!

That's just one instance of a player with good technique coming back after a competitive match with "jacked up" technique even though he/she has really good technique.

That's why I don't let the kids I coach play tournaments or team tennis until their strokes and serves are almost "bullet proof."

[glacierguy]

Got it - thanks! Reminds me of a rather scarring incident when my serve disintegrated through nerves. It happens.

[stotty]

Yes, it's true, female players have been let down. And yes it's true we continually resort to forehands as evidence and rarely compare their backhands or serves to that of male players. Don't get me started on serves.

But perhaps what it shows most is an inability of coaches to ‘'make'’ a stroke happen. Many male players can get there on their own, and probably have in the past despite coaching ignorance. Female players cannot get there on their own (or they possibly might if a cluster of players developed ATP swings and started pumping increased spin into the game) so therefore are dependent on good coaching skills to make things happen for them.

The skill set of many coaches in the UK is likely not sound enough to coach players to have ATP swings. Most probably do not understand the biomechanics well enough and a fair few don’'t have too much inclination to learn either. Plus, it is not enough to understand the science, coaches need skill, know-how and a keen intuition to develop and teach players of differing personalities and ‘learning’ capabilities, all of whom will require different cues. Some get it, some don’'t, some can do it, some can’'t..... …you know what I mean.

I have far more coaching knowledge than I ever had 10 or even 5 years ago. The problem is it is hard to convince folk when you’re 57 and hobbling around with an arthritic left knee and a shot rotator cuff. I do my best though.

When I watch Serena and how well she plays, what scares me is how good she could have been.

It could never happen for women in 5 years, and 10 years might even be pushing it. I look around and I am not even seeing the early shoots.

[glacierguy]

But perhaps what it shows most is an inability of coaches to ‘'make'’ a stroke happen. Many male players can get there on their own, and probably have in the past despite coaching ignorance. Female players cannot get there on their own (or they possibly might if a cluster of players developed ATP swings and started pumping increased spin into the game) so therefore are dependent on good coaching skills to make things happen for them.

Do you think mixed competition could help? Ladders open to boys/girls, men/women, for example? I think mixed competition should be encouraged, but from personal experience I know it would take a LOT of encouragement!!

[stotty]

I think it would be interesting to plunge the top girls into boys tennis and see what would happen with good coaching and self-development. Never underestimate a talented player's ability to self-develop. Coaches have never lead technical development, they just followed the rule-breakers who ended up achieving great success. It would be interesting to see how girls would adapt to a more spinny game over a period of time.

[BrianGordon]

I have far more coaching knowledge than I ever had 10 or even 5 years ago. The problem is it is hard to convince folk when you’re 57 and hobbling around with an arthritic left knee and a shot rotator cuff. I do my best though.

Well... I turn 59 this week and have my own hobbling issues so this hits home with me. I believe your best is light years ahead of most - keep fighting - great post.

[macaque]

Oh my goodness!!! Thank you Brian for biomechanically confirming what I've always believed.


My kids have to get a "license" before they are allowed to play any competitive tennis. What I mean by that is that they have to have a good two-handed topspin backhand, a Type III forehand, and a topspin (ish) serve that they can get in about 50% of the time. It has been my experience that under competitive stresses the technique of these shots breaks down and devolves. Backswings get too big. Strokes become pushes. Serves become frying pan dinks.

Do you not allow your players to play with a one handed topspin backhand?