The Net Game: Macro Perspective

[jeffreycounts]

Let's discuss Chris Lewit's latest article, "The Net Game: Macro Perspective"

[nytennisaddict]

i'm glad to see that there's still some success with s&v at the pro level {brown, feli, ivo).
agree, at rec level, net game/style is viable... but probably don't see much at the rec level, since there's not much at the pro levels to copy...

personally i've been spending much more time working on s&v/c&c, partly for dubs, but also because i don't have the wheels to grind out from the baseline like i used to.

[klacr]

i'm glad to see that there's still some success with s&v at the pro level {brown, feli, ivo).
agree, at rec level, net game/style is viable... but probably don't see much at the rec level, since there's not much at the pro levels to copy...

personally i've been spending much more time working on s&v/c&c, partly for dubs, but also because i don't have the wheels to grind out from the baseline like i used to.

Good for you nytennisaddict. You'll find its a fun endeavor and you will give many of your opponents real trouble if you execute it. Serve & volley still has a place in today's game although not a primary game style. If you don't see much at the recreational level that should give you even more reason to use it opponents not familiar with it will be disrupted and not be familiar on how to handle it.

Check out my 7 part series on S&V in the strategy section of this website. Let me know on your progress. I would love to help any way I can.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

[nytennisaddict]

random thoughts, as i read through your articles:

* love the metaphor... "long grinding hours at the restaurant == baseline game"...
* that's cool that you played nalbandian. would be an honor to get passed at the net over and over again by his 2hbh
* mentality, definitely was tough leaving the comfortable/predictable baseline world... it's funny how volleys are taught, ie. that nice waist height volley from just inside the service line... but the reality is that you often have to improvise, lunge, jump, dig, shank, etc...
* agreed, racquet tech is often an excuse not to try the unpredictable world of s&v... if you've been playing for any amount of time, and invested in groundies... it's a hit to the ego to venture to net and look so uncoordiated trying to volley.(as evidenced by the many 4.0's i come across that take their practice volleys (if they take any) from 1ft from the net)
* regarding "long hypnotic sleep inducing rallies"... lol, while i like to s&v, baseline rallies satisfy my ocd!
* took me a while to learn that i need to serve like a baseball pitcher, and not try to blast every ball... it's even easier to s&v spinning more serves with placement, than it is to try serving 100+ every time... more often than not, my fastest/flatttest serves are hardest to handle at net (comes back faster, can't close as much, easier for opponent to block back with a short backswing, etc...)
* "we stay in the point on the baseline, we win points at net" love it. a mentallity i have today. not having a big baseline weapon has helped me evolve this philosophy.
* "I often joke with my players that the best volley is the one you never have to hit."... it's amazing how volleys i don't have to hit... when i win s&v'ing, for sure it's because my opponent missed overhitting a passing shot (vs. me making incredible volleys)
* "i'd rather lose than get passed" - why the heck is this true? you see the same in dubs... when asking folks to poach... they think they look dumb when they get passed down the alley (despite winning 3 of 4 points when poaching)
* took me a while to realize that i don't have to get to the svc line for first volley... just matters i'm splitting, staying balanced, etc... often sampras was in nml... "get to svc line (for first volley)" was definitely a teaching tip for like a slow serving 3.0, that somehow passed along by folks eaves dropping on the lesson...
* "make an effort for every point"... oh good message, i don't always do that... didn't think it's allso sending a message to my opponent.
* stamina - yeah, kinda like the difference between running quarter mile sprints, vs. running a 10k run
* half volleys, and just-after-half-volleys - are the toughest shots i have trouble with... actually half vollyes are much easier to time, but if i let it bounce to knee or waist height off a heavy fast moving ball (ie. volleying on the rise), i have trouble with it... i get confused: do i drive it flat with conti grip, do i slice it like a regular volley (slicing on the rise is hard to do because the ball and contact are moving parallel to each other)... any tips?
* the not-quite-an-overhead - is another shot i have trouble with... do i squat down and treat it like an overhead... do i take it as a high volley, and go back deep, do i just slice it back as an approach shot? tips?
* i really like the serve and soft catch drill... i struggle to switching between hard grip and soft grip... i like to grip and rip, but that "hardness" doesn't work well to execute soft short angle volleys
* the 4 corner box drill for half volleys looks great, will definitely do that with my kids/students in the spring... and have them feed that to myself.
* serve into table drill... oh man, never saw this before... will definitely steal this one. will have to start carrying around a portable table... what's the timing of the split step for this drill? guessing on the sound of the table hit?
* i too take all my warmup volleys from at the svc line (or even 1ft from the line closer to the baseline)... i even have coaches in clinics "correct" my position, which i found odd (i was still making my volleys, albeit making it harder for myself where contact was at my kneecaps or shoe laces)

fantastic writeup, thx for pointing it out to me!

[klacr]

nytennisaddict,

Thanks for reading!
Lots to digest.
a few answers to your queries:

-for the half volleys you struggle with, keep the racquet directly behind the ball, continental grip and aim low over the net to keep it down. Not too much racquet work. 100% correct on hitting on the rise, you need to cover that ball or else the launch angle will make it sail.

- Take that low overhead as a high volley, penetrate that court like a firm approach shot, don't let it bounce. Make them come up with an impossible pass.
- Table Drill: Time the split step with the bounce on the ball in the service box.
-I always, always practice volleys from service line. You will get all types of volleys, low ones, high ones, half volleys etc. I know that if a player can volley consistently from the service line or slightly behind it then they can volley from just about anywhere. Sounds crazy, but at one point my half-volley was arguably one of my best shots.

Hope those pointers help. keep charging forward. Embrace the net!

Kyle LaCroix
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

[glacierguy]

* i too take all my warmup volleys from at the svc line (or even 1ft from the line closer to the baseline)... i even have coaches in clinics "correct" my position, which i found odd (i was still making my volleys, albeit making it harder for myself where contact was at my kneecaps or shoe laces)

fantastic writeup, thx for pointing it out to me!

Yes. Volley warm up from a static position at the net is pointless for me, bearing no relation to how volleys present in a game. Better to start volley warm up at service line and move in gradually with every shot.

[nytennisaddict]

nytennisaddict,

Thanks for reading!
Lots to digest.
a few answers to your queries:

-for the half volleys you struggle with, keep the racquet directly behind the ball, continental grip and aim low over the net to keep it down. Not too much racquet work. 100% correct on hitting on the rise, you need to cover that ball or else the launch angle will make it sail.

- Take that low overhead as a high volley, penetrate that court like a firm approach shot, don't let it bounce. Make them come up with an impossible pass.
- Table Drill: Time the split step with the bounce on the ball in the service box.
-I always, always practice volleys from service line. You will get all types of volleys, low ones, high ones, half volleys etc. I know that if a player can volley consistently from the service line or slightly behind it then they can volley from just about anywhere. Sounds crazy, but at one point my half-volley was arguably one of my best shots.

Hope those pointers help. keep charging forward. Embrace the net!

Kyle LaCroix
Delray Beach
SETS Consulting

thx kyle...

regarding half volleying when you say "cover" the ball... do you mean i should be hitting a rising ball with a vertical or closed face? at least that's what i've been trying to do... but with conti grip, i'm not practiced enough to hit a ball with vertical/closed face (i'm well practiced slicing with a open face). interestingly, half volleying nearer the bounce is easier than if i half volley from say between knee and waist height... i kinda "lose track of contact" if i let it bounce up too high. (at chest or head high, it's just a normal slice approach shot for me)

low-overhead... yeah, that's what i've been doing, trying to volley firm & deep... but i sometimes overhit. don't know why, but i prefer to hit a waist/chest/head high volley firmrly, but when it's over my head, but not quite an overhead, i have trouble with the right amount of force

volleying from service line... yeah, whenever i come across someone that even tries to voelly from the svcline (or behind it), i presume theirr volleys are gonna be good everywhere. similary i've had many folks intentionally avoid me at net, just because i was volleying decently from behind the svcline.

[nytennisaddict]

Yes. Volley warm up from a static position at the net is pointless for me, bearing no relation to how volleys present in a game. Better to start volley warm up at service line and move in gradually with every shot.

ideally that's how i should be warming up... volleying while moving forward...
because my "touch" changes if i include my forward momentum (effectively making the ball faster and harder to control with soft hands)
but sometimes i'm too lazy to reset to behind the svcline every 2nd or 3rd shot :P

[klacr]

thx kyle...

regarding half volleying when you say "cover" the ball... do you mean i should be hitting a rising ball with a vertical or closed face? at least that's what i've been trying to do... but with conti grip, i'm not practiced enough to hit a ball with vertical/closed face (i'm well practiced slicing with a open face). interestingly, half volleying nearer the bounce is easier than if i half volley from say between knee and waist height... i kinda "lose track of contact" if i let it bounce up too high. (at chest or head high, it's just a normal slice approach shot for me)

low-overhead... yeah, that's what i've been doing, trying to volley firm & deep... but i sometimes overhit. don't know why, but i prefer to hit a waist/chest/head high volley firmrly, but when it's over my head, but not quite an overhead, i have trouble with the right amount of force

volleying from service line... yeah, whenever i come across someone that even tries to voelly from the svcline (or behind it), i presume theirr volleys are gonna be good everywhere. similary i've had many folks intentionally avoid me at net, just because i was volleying decently from behind the svcline.

You are correct. You are on the right path. It won't actually be closed but it will have the feeling of it. Keep practicing. Often times we try to slice too much on those shots and the ball sails long or goes too high for an easy pass from an opponent.

Also, forgot to comment on the correction the pros give you in clinics...yeah, that's one of my pet peeves. That's just a sad example of how many coaches still don't understand the volley and its true essence. Ignore them and realize you are on the right path. Your gains are bigger than their opinions.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Palo Alto
SETS Consulting

[stotty]

interestingly, half volleying nearer the bounce is easier than if i half volley from say between knee and waist height... i kinda "lose track of contact" if i let it bounce up too high.

Very true. It's interesting because we cannot actually watch a ball that is half volley come off the ground. Human eyesight just isn't quick enough. So we end up intuitively swinging the racket at an area where we sense the ball must be, which as you say, is far easier than taking the ball just slightly later off the bounce. I find I can time a half volley better than any other shot.

[stroke]

Yes. Volley warm up from a static position at the net is pointless for me, bearing no relation to how volleys present in a game. Better to start volley warm up at service line and move in gradually with every shot.

I personally think the popular Nadal type racquet is not great at mid court service line type volleys. The traditional Fed type racquet, close to 13 oz, headlight, with a with a 340/345 or so swingweight, is much more solid and confidence inspiring on these type volleys. But it certainly may not be more confidence inspiring playing behind the baseline seeing how much topspin on can hit.

[nytennisaddict]

I personally think the popular Nadal type racquet is not great at mid court service line type volleys. The traditional Fed type racquet, close to 13 oz, headlight, with a with a 340/345 or so swingweight, is much more solid and confidence inspiring on these type volleys. But it certainly may not be more confidence inspiring playing behind the baseline seeing how much topspin on can hit.

yup, i had exactly the same thought.
while i'm a huge nadal fan, and love his racquet (and similar basher racquets), i switched to the rf97, and is greater than 13oz after all is said and done.
it takes some sting out of my groundstrokes, but helps alot with returns and volleys.

because of the slight loss of baseline pace/spin (i still get a decent amount), i know spend a bit more time focusing on placement, rather than trying to crush every ball asap. so now i'll focus more on depth, then maneuver opponent out of position, wait for short ball, approach, finish at net. i've typically tried to finish at net, but typically tried to illicit a short ball from bashing (if i was on, i typically won, but if i was off, i'd lose epic-ly)

the weight of the racquet ddefinitley forces me to swing with my body more, and overall has improved my technique (sync'ing legs/core/arm/hands). it's subtle, but i definitely arm-ed the ball more with my prior lighter racquets.

part of my switch was recognizing that i'm getting older, so bashing from the baseline over 3 sets is unsustainable for me.now... so like fed, i'm looking to finish the points earlier. so i'm adding to my baseline game, elements of s&v, chip&charge, and attacking the net whenever possilbe (taking more chances much sonner than my baseline-bashing-only days).

[glacierguy]

I personally think the popular Nadal type racquet is not great at mid court service line type volleys. The traditional Fed type racquet, close to 13 oz, headlight, with a with a 340/345 or so swingweight, is much more solid and confidence inspiring on these type volleys. But it certainly may not be more confidence inspiring playing behind the baseline seeing how much topspin on can hit.

That's interesting, and a perspective I do not have, since I'm playing RF85 (which I've just looked up has strung weight about 355g and swing weight of 329). It's quite good at picking volleys off my toes around the service line as I fail, yet again, to close the net quickly enough.

[arturohernandez]

random thoughts, as i read through your articles:


* the not-quite-an-overhead - is another shot i have trouble with... do i squat down and treat it like an overhead... do i take it as a high volley, and go back deep, do i just slice it back as an approach shot? tips?

You could also use the "bolo" Connors overhead. If you turn your back a bit to the ball and hit it more like a slam dunk rather than like a traditional overhead then you can catch it lower and still hit the ball forward.

Since your arm is going forward you can guide it in any direction.

It's not a regular type of shot but for the ball in between a volley and an overhead it might be a viable solution.

[nytennisaddict]

You could also use the "bolo" Connors overhead. If you turn your back a bit to the ball and hit it more like a slam dunk rather than like a traditional overhead then you can catch it lower and still hit the ball forward.

Since your arm is going forward you can guide it in any direction.

It's not a regular type of shot but for the ball in between a volley and an overhead it might be a viable solution.

i can't even picture what your're talking about... have a vid? is this how you handle it? my solution has been to slice it back (much less pace than a full smash) deep as an approach shot