Federer vs. Nadal

[oliensis]

Did anybody notice that Federer (F) changed the geometry of the points against Nadal (N) in the Hamburg final? I mean, changed it relative to how they had been playing in previous matches?

I.e., F did not get into many rallies that were F backhand to N forehand. F took the risk of going down the line off his right-handed backhand (or else ran around N's crosscourt forehand to go inside in w/ his (F's) forehand) in order to change the dominant diagonal to being F forehand to N backhand.

I'd been thinking that that was necessary for F to beat N on clay. But it took F being able to execute the down-the-line backhand off the N forehand in order to set up the better diagonal for F.

I don't know to what extent that was a function of N not hitting his forehand as well, or how much N not hitting his forehand as well was a function of F dictating the geometry better. But it seems that that is a very important point in dictating play to a lefty--can't let them dictate the "wrong" crosscourt rallies. And once the geometry favored F, N played worse and worse, missing shots that were out of his comfort zone because he wasn't used to having to spend so much time hitting so many shots from over in his backhand corner of the court.

Best,
AO

[tennisplayer]

It seemed to me that Federer chose a very deliberate tactic against Nadal. I think this was based on the fact that Nadal runs around his backhand whenever he can. By hitting a lot of points to his backhand, Federer forced Nadal to favor the backhand side more - that is, actually move more to his backhand side so he could run around more easily when the opportunity arose. This then gave Federer the opportunity to drill inside out shots to Nadal's forehand, with Nadal a little out of position.

Also, I noticed Fed, and Hewitt on the previous day, were hitting very deep and hard, with a flatter trajectory, catching Nadal's shots quite early. I think the pace kind of weakened Nadal's response since that seem to take something away from his setup time. They must have learned this from Blake...

[maahou]

Hi,

For me both players didn't play very well .
Nadal seemed very tired, when he won the first set he didn't look very good if you see his face ; Federer made several mistakes but Nadal made more

[johnyandell]

I've been traveling and haven't seen the match. I'm going to chart it when I get back to SF, and probably write up the results. Interesting, though, the points in the first post about the diagonals! I'll check it out when I watch.

[gsheiner]

I think that Nadal has become a little predictable in his patterns recently. Almost all his rally forehands are crosscourt ( many just flicked off his back foot) . Since the guys are anticipating this, they can contact these balls earlier and flatten them out ( either crosscourt or down the line).

Nadal becomes lethal when he mixes in some big inside out forehands of his own to a righthander's forehand corner. This forces guys to have the guard the forehand side a liitle more and then makes his crosscourt forehand to the righthander's backhand much more effective.

Plus, by hitting the inside out forehand of his own, Nadal will punish guys physically which will become a much bigger factor at the French.

I still think Nadal is the favourite at the French. Although Fed was impressive in the second and third sets, he was done 15-40 on his serve at 1-1 in the second. He held and then broke Nadal but I think if Nadal had broken , the match would have been over in straights for Rafa.

[oliensis]

Thanks for all the replies. Interesting comments all. I'll have to try to watch a tape of the match to look for the points raised.

I'll look forward to John Yandell's stats and comments as well.

Best,
AO

[10isDad]

Rome - last year

Fed has tried this tactic before. In the Rome final last year, Fed went down the line off the backhand dozens of times evidently trying to force a change of direction. There were points when 8 or more shots in a row went down the line because Nadal didn't try to change the direction of Fed's down the line backhand. This was especially true in the first set of that match.

I wasn't able to see the Hamburg match - perhaps it was the flatness of Fed's shots, but it's not something distinctly new.

[kmoranon]

federer vs nadal

well for what I see RFed will never beat Nadal on the big clay stadium until he can beat the Roger Federer ego.... YES Roger Federer has an ego problem as much as he is the perfect player and that is his problem... until he really decides that he will do what ever it take to win the French he will not win the French... what ever it take means hitting dropshots (a no-no in RF book)and more junk slices ... the secret was/is not coming into the net more to beat Nadal . The secret is to make him move north and south . Nadal is too comfortable going side to side and can run forever doing that,so you make him rum up and back... But the perfect player(RF) will not hit dropshots because it's below him to do that kind of trickery so he losses.Great champions adapt to win on any surface as Borg had to improve his serve and eventually hit volleys at Wimbledon ... R.Fed has it but he doesn't use what he has... too bad because he's such a great guy and a great player he deserves all the accolades but one thing will elude him is the french Open ,until he can conquer his own demon(being the perfect player) within...km

[stroke]

I really like like reading thougts on Fed/Nadal from folk such as Kmoranon, but I just simply am not in agreement. I, like J Yandell, am a huge Fed fan , and would love to see Fed do it, but I cannot see him defeating Nadal is a best of 5 formant on clay. I do believe Fed is the most technically sound tennis player of all time, and in my opinion, the best ever, but I still cannot see him ever defeating Nadal at the French Open, no matter what tactics he employs. If Fed can defeat Nadal at Wimbledon, the US Open should be very interesting. Nadal is the real deal.

[makhan67]

Yes, the key was forcing Nadal in his BH corner more, leaving his FH side a bit uncovered, and then Federer would unleash an insideout FH to Nadal's FH, or FH down the line to Nadal's vacated spot. And/or hitting a forcing shot to Nadal's FH, and then quickly hit to Nadal's backhand! Unfortunately, Federer did not follow this plan or was not able to adopt this plan against Nadal in the French Open Final. Please read John yandell's article on this subject.