How High Can You Go? Serve toss:

[tennisdad]

So we have a vertical tester and decided to roll it out to the courts. The one depicted is 10 foot at the top rung. 8 foot at the bottom. He did a test jump without a racket up to 9‘ feet 6 inches”. From prior posts of mine I’ve made it clear that he’s hitting a pretty good twist serve but he’s not hitting the booming flat serve yet. He hit a test flat (ish) serve depicted below and his contact height with a racket is a solid foot below where he can reach without a racket. What to make from this observation?

[johnyandell]

That the serve is not a jump.

[tennisdad]

That the serve is not a jump.

Yeah but isn’t 8‘ foot 6 inches a little bit low of a contact point for a first serve?

[johnyandell]

How tall is he?

[tennisdad]

How tall is he?

5 foot 8 inches

[johnyandell]

9' 6" is a rough contact height for a player who is 6'2". So that's 6 inches taller than your son. I'd say his contact height is pretty good. But it's not about reaching some arbitrary height. It's about the motion and the loading of the legs. The height will be what it's gonna be.

[J011yroger]

https://jfawcette.myportfolio.com/serve-impact-height

J

[J011yroger]

tennisdad you can PM or email me for more info because I can't post a lot about this online, but be very careful about prioritizing contact height. You are better off focusing on the hand path and racquet path going up and through the ball and then once you are happy with that have the kid challenge himself with the toss (I love that phrase stolen from Pat Dougherty) so the throwing mechanics will stay intact and the contact point relative to the body will stay the same but the legs will be used for more up and out. If you emphasize high contact from the beginning you will lose the forearm to racquet angle and the ability to go through the ball and end up with a slower serve that often goes into the net and or to a righty's forehand.

J

[tennisdad]

OK thank you.
I have tons of videos under my YouTube screen name if you go to any video I posted of him if you see anything Noteworthy re: forearm to racket! Thx!!

[don_budge]

https://jfawcette.myportfolio.com/serve-impact-height

J

These are interesting photos and interesting data. What about the contact point inside the baseline?

[J011yroger]

These are interesting photos and interesting data. What about the contact point inside the baseline?

I wish I could find more, it appears pretty variable from player to player. I set up right in line with the baseline at the USO to try to get some idea.

J

[arturohernandez]

5 foot 8 inches

I agree with John. The serve is not a jump. That being said, jumping can help. He seems to have some pretty good elevation for his height. My guess is that he could learn to emulate Federer's serve which uses much more height relative to other players.

But I agree with @J011yroger that there are a lot of moving parts that are more important than absolute height of contact.

Flat fast serves are great. However, Sam Stosur and Patrick Rafter did a lot without hitting flat serves. And Thiem uses a very heavy serve to setup his points. The rumor was that Sampras could hit 20 mph faster than he did but opted to hit with much more spin which gave him a big advantage.

Unless, your son can hit over 130 mph with a flat serve consistently, I think variation in spin will get him a lot farther. It will also allow him to use the serve as a setup for what he wants to do.

Even world class servers like Roddick and Sampras, eventually met someone who could neutralize their serves. The question is what to do when the serve is neutralized.

Nadal and Federer are masters at using the serve as a setup.

Because their serve speed is not considered to be elite by pro standards, they may serve as the ultimate tactical guide for rec and junior players.

[Error]

I'm going to ruffle some feathers and say that contact height is absolutely critical, Its all important but the height of contact rains supreme! Its so important as to take priority over every thing else. However this assumes your son is fundamentally sound to begin with.

After the fundamentals have been learned ( not necessarily mastered yet) contact height becomes crucial because it directly effects net clearance and the amount of energy you can create with your swing. The higher the contact the higher the net clearance, The higher the contact the "longer" you are making your limbs, You can gain a lot of inches by extending at contact more than you think you have to. Jumping to get the extra height at contact doesn't have the same benefits of stretching and extending. I'm not saying don't jump. Jumping is more of byproduct.

Try having your son keep his feet on ground and really extend to increase contact height. I teach a student to imagine reaching to a high shelf to get a book down, Really reach and stretch as far as you can. If you practice it enough the muscles in the Pectoral Region will let you know your doing it correctly.

[Error]

Nadal and Federer are masters at using the serve as a setup.

Well Rodger is 5th all time for first service games won.. but Nadal is 14th. I don't know if I would call him a master of using his serve to "set up" his opponents.

Because their serve speed is not considered to be elite by pro standards, they may serve as the ultimate tactical guide for rec and junior players.

You're kidding?

[seano]

Error -

2 questions.
1) What is the position of the elbow, wrist and racquet head at contact? Are they perfectly straight or a bend? Trying to visualize what ur saying.
2) Does the contact height vary with type of serve? Slice, topspin or flat?

SeanO