Interactive Forum: Novak Djokovic Forehand

[jlkm2219]

It's an interesting and complex question. What to model or how much to model from the pros?

Having just gotten back from watching the best 600 American juniors in the Easter Bowl, not many if any were fully westernized on their grips. But they face the same problem a player like Djokovic faces--how to play a screaming topspin drive that bounces to shoulder level. So the grips are almost all moderate to extreme semi-westerns.

The problem of the high ball doesn't go away when you are 6' 2" or whatever. Check out the Osmosis forehand article for more on this. The contact points are unbelievably difficult in the pros. But to deal with this type of ball it's not quite as easy as just saying get an eastern grip and step in... This is the real factor more than body type.

Which brings us to the real point I think of your comment--what about your game? In club tennis the more conservative grips and rotations are usually more appropriate for the exact reason that the ball ISN'T usually bouncing over your shoulder.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't understand the torso and hand and arm rotation patterns and use them. But if your contact heights are waist level, then the more extreme grips aren't as well suited to your game.

In my personal case, when I was younger (lower 40s) I played against heavy topspin players and my grip was western. When getting older, I noticed that I've changed my grip to eastern/semi western. It was not a consciuos process. My brain (?) adapted my grip to a less speed game and waist height balls.
What I've learned is that the more you think about your grip, the more mistakes you are going to do.
You can try to imitate your favorite player but you have to know yor limitations.

[jeffreycounts]

Back to Djokovic

As I look at Djokovic's forehand, I see an incredibly far forward contact point with the double bend perfectly intact. This gets his entire body behind the ball with amazing leverage. The ability to hit this far in front gives you all sorts of advantages and is one of the reasons I think Federer's forehands are so penetratring and so hard for his opponents to read.

He also, as others have noted, rotates his shoulders through the ball and gets an enormous finish. In one of my articles I mentioned the "box finish" for the forehand. You can see Djokovic in the "box finish" where the forearm is parallel to the shoulders, but his "box" is way to the left because he is driven so hard through the ball.

Here is a diagram I put together of these two points. I couldn't upload it here as an attachment (keep getting an error) so I posted it on my site:

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/forehand/images/djokovic_forehand.jpg

Jeff

[crosscourt]

And it's not just his shoulders. Look where his stomach ends up, and how far his body is to the left hand side of the point of contact.

[forehand]

And it's good for business...

Jeff,

Turns out this is also good for business. I signed up for a subscription to your site today.

-F

[jeffreycounts]

And it's not just his shoulders. Look where his stomach ends up, and how far his body is to the left hand side of the point of contact.

Yes, exactly. Great point.

[crosscourt]

Going back to two issues (i) hitting out in front and (ii) shoulder rotation I think that the latter is ensuring the former. In a sense the hand and the "double bend" haven't really changed their position in relation to the player's shoulder (ok I exaggerate) but the key thing is that the shoulder has changed position and that has led to the hand having moved very quickly from behind the player to out in front of the player. So the player's hand may be moving very quickly without there being any sensation of it moving relative to the player's body, if that makes sense. And the movement is very stable from the point of view of the efficient transfer of energy. So I think it's shoulder turn driving the arm rather than the arm leading the shoulder. I think that the same goes for the backhand. Come to think of it, it also applies to the serve.

[jeffreycounts]

Going back to two issues (i) hitting out in front and (ii) shoulder rotation I think that the latter is ensuring the former. In a sense the hand and the "double bend" haven't really changed their position in relation to the player's shoulder (ok I exaggerate) but the key thing is that the shoulder has changed position and that has led to the hand having moved very quickly from behind the player to out in front of the player. So the player's hand may be moving very quickly without there being any sensation of it moving relative to the player's body, if that makes sense. And the movement is very stable from the point of view of the efficient transfer of energy. So I think it's shoulder turn driving the arm rather than the arm leading the shoulder. I think that the same goes for the backhand. Come to think of it, it also applies to the serve.

Yes, Yes, and Yes!

Sometimes I do think the double bend can "catch up" a little bit to the rotating shoulders. And sometimes the laid back wrist can "catch up" to the double bend. But on contact, everything goes through the ball together!

[uspta1882566509]

Djokovic forehand grip

Does anybody know exactly what grip djokovic uses ? looks pretty extreme!

thanks,

Florian

[airforce1]

Joker over Fed in straights, wow

Looks pretty western to me too.

Does this shoot holes in Coach Lansdorps theory about severe grips?
I'm a big Lansdorps fan, but I'm starting to question his advice that extreme grips are not suited well for the pro game. Not sure yet on this one.

Of course we have the situation now where players can do so many different skills well. My sons and I return serves with 2 hand backhands, but hit one handers in singles play in the rally. I tend to go with 2 hands in doubles for the quick exchanges. We also vary our grips greatly on different forehands depending on what kind of ball we are getting. We use a more western for kick serve returns and high bouncing sitters, but go more eastern for lower balls and running forehands.
My 9 yr old hits forehands off both sides.

The Joker seems to handle low balls just fine; does he change his grip for this? I'd love to see video of him hitting some lower forehands and some runners.

[uspta1882566509]

Grips

airforce 1,

good point about lansdorp and the grips. Didn't look like Djokovic had problems flattening out his forehand against Federer yesterday I play with a pretty extreme grip myself 4 1/2 4 and I don't feel like I have any limitations with that at all. i can handle high and heavy balls well but i feel like i can also deal fine with low ones and flatten my ball out when needed.

I would agree with Lansdorp when it comes to most professional women though...they simply can't hit the ball heavy enough with the more western grips so that the balls just sit up there nice and high for the opponents. plus they don't cover the court like the guys do and therefore the opponent only needs to hit one or two good shots into the corner to finish the point...in men's tennis the flat ball just comes back so many times and eventually you will miss one.

anyways...anybody have a pretty close idea on what Djokovic's grip is ?

[johnyandell]

Tough to tell and when we put him in the Stroke Archive there will be more closeups, but it looks like a 4 / 4 to me and the heel pad may actually be partially on 3 as well. So less extreme than Nadal for sure, and also Roddick. More like Nalbandian. What was interesting to me was has close he played to the baseline versus Federer, so maybe his grip is right at the far edge of the comfort line for that.

[airforce1]

watching the match today, I can see where DJokovic uses the topspin on the outside of the ball, on the low forehands, such as Tsonga's approach slices.
This is often used on running forehands, but I thought mostly with a more eastern grip.
Wonder if Nole is adjusting his grip for these low ones?

Also, Nole never seems to muscle his forehands, as aggressive as they are. It always stays smooth.

[stroke]

I do not think Novak alters his grip to get to the outside of the ball on the running FH's. Nadal loves that shot and gets a noticeable left to right break on his left handed FH with a western grip.