Interactive Forum July 2019: Downward Wrist Flex in Pro Forehands

[rthodges]

One thing I noticed is that the downward wrist flex happens naturally as extreme grip players make their grip change. In John’s video Tiafoe and Kachanov both have the wrist flex ion set up by the time they make their unit turn. It appears to be a byproduct of an extreme grip and the orientation of the racquet in the ready position, I got the same flexion trying out a full western grip change just now.

They seem to maintain the wrist structure through the unit turn and backswing. Given the speed of the pro game my guess is that this evolved out of necessity, as changing the orientation of the wrist and racquet would require time that the players don’t have.

[stroke]

Happened to see this though I don't often wander much. I guess I wasn't clear - the "lag" theory such as it is states the "flip" loads the wrist joint for SSC enhanced release into the contact point - this is incorrect in the Type III for sure but most other forms also. Motion of the wrist joint during the flip nearly always occurs and is an optimization to the angle between the racquet and the arm so the the rotating racquet can directly (type III) or indirectly (see next article) externally rotate the shoulder. The wrist position these guys both have in the back swing is apparently an effort to enhance the flip mechanism, not the target of it in my view - to me it also adds a lot of unnecessary drama but does prove there are many ways to put the ball in the court.

Brian, I misquoted you. I meant to say you said the wrist "does not lag back, it is not a wrist thing". I said "flip" instead of "lag" and muddled up my point. Thanks for your input here. It does look like these players who add the "drama" to their forehand cannot take the ball on early as they get rushed way more than a Fed/Nadal/Fognini/Berrenttni/Tsitsipas pure type 3. As Stotty said, Roger is the gold standard.

[rthodges]

Brian, I misquoted you. I meant to say you said the wrist "does not lag back, it is not a wrist thing". I said "flip" instead of "lag" and muddled up my point. Thanks for your input here. It does look like these players who add the "drama" to their forehand cannot take the ball on early as they get rushed way more than a Fed/Nadal/Fognini/Berrenttni/Tsitsipas pure type 3. As Stotty said, Roger is the gold standard.

Well said on the inability to take the ball early. It seems like the “drama” comes from extreme grip players keeping the racquet further to the outside during the unit turn. It’s a stark contrast to the preparation of Nadal and Djokovic, who play with extreme grips yet have the racquet relatively vertical when their hands separate.

[stroke]

Well said on the inability to take the ball early. It seems like the “drama” comes from extreme grip players keeping the racquet further to the outside during the unit turn. It’s a stark contrast to the preparation of Nadal and Djokovic, who play with extreme grips yet have the racquet relatively vertical when their hands separate.

I think the next gen forehands(unnecessary drama per Brian) are roadblock to anything other than clay at this level. I think that is Thiem's major issue at this Cincy Masters. Sock, Nick, Karol, Tiafoe, all fall into this category. Nick it is not as big a deal as he has that serve. Just simply not as efficient as the pure type 3, takes away time.

[stroke]

Well said on the inability to take the ball early. It seems like the “drama” comes from extreme grip players keeping the racquet further to the outside during the unit turn. It’s a stark contrast to the preparation of Nadal and Djokovic, who play with extreme grips yet have the racquet relatively vertical when their hands separate.

I think this racquet tip facing forward or forward down to these players makes them feel they get more whip or action out of the racquet head but as Brian might say, unnecessary drama and it takes away precious time. I think Zverev similarly on his serve woes could help himself tremendously by using Brian's "probation" serve. Alex's overhead for instance looks fine, but when he goes into his whole motion, he obviously has some issues.

[stotty]

...makes them feel they get more whip or action out of the racquet head...

I think that's exactly right. It's a 'feeling', a feeling within the player that he is creating more whip/lag. You can totally understand the thought process the player might be going through here in his attempt to create more power. It's a mystery how the true type 3 came about as it's non-sensical to most players that less could possibly be more.

[postpre]

I think this racquet tip facing forward or forward down to these players makes them feel they get more whip or action out of the racquet head but as Brian might say, unnecessary drama and it takes away precious time. I think Zverev similarly on his serve woes could help himself tremendously by using Brian's "probation" serve. Alex's overhead for instance looks fine, but when he goes into his whole motion, he obviously has some issues.

Good point on Zverev. I'm also of the opinion that he would be better of with a more circular ball toss, a more pronounced shoulder turn, and a platform stance.

[stroke]

Good point on Zverev. I'm also of the opinion that he would be better of with a more circular ball toss, a more pronounced shoulder turn, and a platform stance.

Do not disagree at all ha. But I would love to see what would happen with his serve by just going to a "probation " technique. Obviously, we will never know, but I do like his overhead technique fine. The probation serve is basically just treating the serve as an overhead, arm motion wise.

[zinosman]

Está mais para uma orientação de treinador lidando com jogador de pegada única (bem western ex. Karen) para bater bolas em diferentes alturas.
Essa pegada só é boa para bolas altas, na linha dos ombros.
Bolas mais baixas, experimentará tensão nos pontos cruciais do jogo.

[johnyandell]

Translation?

[don_budge]

Translation?

It is more like a coaching orientation dealing with single-footed player (very western eg Karen) to hit balls at different heights. This grip is only good for high balls, at the shoulder line. Lower balls, you will experience tension at the crucial points of the game. ...Google translate

[johnyandell]

Thaks DB once agai. Not sure I agree but the poster is avid