Karen Khachanov - full western?

[stroke]

I personally would say all these players I mentioned just have some version of a western grip with their palm pretty much facing up(if they were to open their hand) at contact. Anything past that is in the Hawaiian category. I am not sure what you mean by extreme western grip. Kohlschreiber to me is a 30's player with a western grip but it could be classified as a strong semi western I guess.

[arturohernandez]

I personally would say all these players I mentioned just have some version of a western grip with their palm pretty much facing up(if they were to open their hand) at contact. Anything past that is in the Hawaiian category. I am not sure what you mean by extreme western grip. Kohlschreiber to me is a 30's player with a western grip but it could be classified as a strong semi western I guess.

Actually, John has a couple of articles on the topic. He calls it the extreme half western.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/grips/modern_forehand_grip_variations_part2/modern_forehand_grip_variations_part2.html

He also notes that a modified eastern grip is the one used by Federer.

Each of these has tradeoffs but as John notes the more western the grip the harder it is to hit on the rise and to attack.

This eventually becomes a liability.

I also wonder if Rafa has made his grip less extreme over time.

John, Is Rafa's grip less extreme no that back when you wrote your grip articles.

[stroke]

Copy, appropriate article. I would say Kohl is in a half western.

[jimlosaltos]

nice. i'm a canon guy myself... wwas considering the 300f2.8 and 400f2.8 when my kids' were playing soccer, but then they wanted me to coach instead.... can't justify the cost for anything else.... but those were great pics. i'll have to settle for using my 70-200f2.8+1.4x extender on 7d body.

Sorry to be slow responding . The forum isn't sending me updates the way it used to. Yeah, those monster lenses are uber expensive. I rent them. No way I can justify a lens the price of a Yugo to use occasionally. The other advantage of renting is that I can try different things. For the San Jose MSVC WTA I'm renting a newish 500 m FL, much slower than what I like to use, but the weight and length of a 70-200 with the fresnel lens. Might even be too long, but it will give a different perspective. Downside of renting is one never develops the physical skill, familiarity with the equipment. Sort of using a new tennis racket every time on court <g>. Soccer is tough to photograph. Players can be anywhere from right on top of you to the far end. Good luck coaching soccer. Might want to wear protective gear these days <g>

[johnyandell]

Arturo,
Rafa could be slightly less extreme now or not...haven't filmed him in a couple of years.

[doctorhl]

Hope people like my album of K2 !
Here's a trivial photo. I kept staring at his forehand takeback, wondering what it reminded me of.
Finally dawned on me, so I did this silly composite, at the Flickr link. Couldn't resist <g> / jim

https://flic.kr/p/2gaqQr4

Forty years ago the tennis community would have deemed this stroke incapable of success. Could you place this pic between a selected pro fh of forty years ago and a photoshopped fh of forty years in the future? Perhaps forum members could submit to you futuristic drawings to help with the photoshop. I enjoy your work.

[jimlosaltos]

Forty years ago the tennis community would have deemed this stroke incapable of success. Could you place this pic between a selected pro fh of forty years ago and a photoshopped fh of forty years in the future? Perhaps forum members could submit to you futuristic drawings to help with the photoshop. I enjoy your work.

Thanks! Just saw this. Imagining a forehand of 40 years in the future? My head is spinning. What will the equipment be? / jim

[arturohernandez]

Arturo,
Rafa could be slightly less extreme now or not...haven't filmed him in a couple of years.

I am curious about his forehand. My sense is that it has become less loopy which means probably less extreme. It would be nice to confirm with video!

[arturohernandez]

Thanks! Just saw this. Imagining a forehand of 40 years in the future? My head is spinning. What will the equipment be? / jim

I agree! But I just don't see how this forehand can be hit for a very long time. It hurts even to look at it.

[doctorhl]

Thanks! Just saw this. Imagining a forehand of 40 years in the future? My head is spinning. What will the equipment be? / jim

When golf club shafts and heads drastically improved distance, the sport responded by lengthening courses. Basketball responded to taller players with the 3 point line. I don’t think tennis court dimensions or surfaces will be changed much to accommodate the increasing power game. The ball or rules probably won’t change much. Racket manufacturers, however, now depend on constant innovation and the futuristic player may use a racket with a spring loaded shaft for more power. Or a player may use a 360 degree spin to increase speed on a put away shot baseline shot. Some youngsters are now being taught to try to switch hands and only hit forehands, making the backhand obsolete. The serve may see tall, excellent jumpers leaping in the air almost to the service line to contact the ball.

[stotty]

I think players have grips further round than they used to. Some are so close to full western there's barely any difference. Once upon a time, when surfaces were much more diverse, it wasn't possible. But now, because most surfaces offer a true and higher bounce, it's probably beneficial to have extreme grips. Personally I would like to see ATP tweak their tournament surfaces a bit. Let's have some slicker, lower bouncing courts, just to liven things up a bit.

The main problem with extreme grips is the player is almost bound to be one dimensional. I have never seen a player with an extreme forehand grip with a fluent slice backhand, not in the mode of a Roger or a Newcombe, anyway.