HOW TO HIT Heavy Ball

[GMann]

Dear John, I hope that you and also ideally Jeff Counts can help me out here. You have written some excellent and interesting articles on "the heavy ball" which explain, quantify and describe the properties of a heavy ball. But, as far as I can tell, virtually no one has truly described HOW TO HIT IT. I am also interested in Jeff Count's input, because if indeed it is true that the ball only springs off the racket for a millisecond as he describes it, then how can one impart extra spin on the ball in a millisecond of contact?

I'm particularly interested in heavy topspin forehands. I'm also even more interested in "HIGH-heavy" topspin forehands. I have seen some top junior players, for example, who in the middle of the rally will throw in a forehand with extremely heavy spin and with a higher trajectory than their previous shot and this ball seems to jump almost twice as high as 90% of other players who try the same shot.

Can someone isolate the technique involved? Nadal can certainly do this, so can Tursunov and I am told that actually Gasquet can do this.

I know that Jeff has pointed out that Nadal and Federer use the straight arm technique which is virtually impossible for us mortals to duplicate, but there must be another method because I don't think Tursunov or Gasquet use straight arms.

Just to be clear, I know how to hit very hard forehands and I know how to hit very hard forehands which also have a lot of spin which keeps the ball in the court. I also know how to hit high topspin shots. What I don't know and what I am hoping that you can explain to me, is how to hit that spinning, high heavy forehand stroke which jumps off the ground higher than most players and which really wreaks havoc with the opponent's stroke. I've seen players devastate their opponents with this shot and I've also seen them sometimes literally bounce the ball over their opponent's head in the backcourt where the ball hits high up on the fence.

Can anyone explain how to do this? This is a very valuable weapon that would be great to learn for any level.

[johnyandell]

I'm not sure I ever hit one of those shots myself. And I'm not sure that is strictly "technique" related.

Also I haven't ever claimed that I know how to hit a "heavier ball" or that I can teach it to anyone.

Obviously racket head speed is divided into speed and spin. Whatever the maximum a player can generate limits the equation.

The other factors are grip and the wiper action. We can hit up and brush the ball with the face moving vertically through the swing. This incline is increased thru the contact zone as you go underneath with the grip. We can also rotate the hand and arm as we come thru. This ability to rotate usually is increased with more extreme grips as well.

It sounds like a sollopcism but how fast the player can swing upward, forward, and add hand rotation is going to limit how fast he can swing upward, forward and add hand rotation.

Yes you can take speed off, loop the ball and add more spin. But can you swing harder add speed and also swing upward and turn your hand over sufficiently quickly to control that speed with more spin?

However you can combine these variables with the ball still going in the court is the answer to how "heavy" the ball is that you can generate. Beyond that I wouldn't worry about it.

[jeffreycounts]

The wiper motion, properly executed, will give you the heavy topspin ball. The key is that you must use your shoulder, hand and forearm to come up the ball and then windshield wiper over.

Weak topspin results from not engaging the hand and shoulder and forearm together. Like the kid in my articles who comes across his body and hits himself in the chest. Look again at my wiper article and watch how the shoulder underlies the entire wiping motion.

Also, as John mentioned, the quicker you come up the back of the ball, the more topspin you will generate.

[johnyandell]

Agreed, and perhaps more optimistic than my post. But I agree that the wiper is going to maximize what you can really do.

[jeffreycounts]

Agreed, and perhaps more optimistic than my post. But I agree that the wiper is going to maximize what you can really do.

It doesn't hurt to have shoulders and arms like Nadal. Or the flexibility and timing of Federer!

I didn't talk about this in my wiper article, but several years ago I was working with a kid who hit an incredibly "heavy" topspin forehand. His forehand had a lot of topspin but it was a hard, powerful topspin that seemed to gain speed as it came off the ground. This was so different than the "spinny" topspin most people hit that seemed to lose speed coming across the net. When I asked him to model the shot, he showed me this incredibly full wiper motion he was doing that engaged his hand and shoulder and drew a complete rainbow in front of his body. It was the first time I really started to see the power of this shot properly executed.

Interestingly enough, the kid was using an Eastern grip, yet hitting bigger, harder topspin than kids with semi-western or western.

[GMann]

When I asked him to model the shot, he showed me this incredibly full wiper motion he was doing that engaged his hand and shoulder and drew a complete rainbow in front of his body. It was the first time I really started to see the power of this shot properly executed.

That's very interesting information, Jeff. Can you explain and/or illustrate how that rainbow in front of his body compared in shape or form to the rainbow you show in your windshield wiper article illustrating the more conventional forehand? In other words, how does the swing path differ?

[evikshin]

Hi Jeffrey,

Regarding the kid with the eastern grip who hid big topspin shots: did he hit with a straight arm or a double bend, or somewhere in between? The hitting arm position is something thats been on my mind for awhile (straight vs. bent, and the benefits of each, etc.))

[jeffreycounts]

Hi Jeffrey,

Regarding the kid with the eastern grip who hid big topspin shots: did he hit with a straight arm or a double bend, or somewhere in between? The hitting arm position is something thats been on my mind for awhile (straight vs. bent, and the benefits of each, etc.))

The straight arm/bent thing is getting even more interesting with Verdasco. From what I've seen, he has a pretty straight arm on his forehands, and that thing is a fully loaded rocket.

Brahim had a very straight arm. It gave him a lot of leverage.

[jeffreycounts]

That's very interesting information, Jeff. Can you explain and/or illustrate how that rainbow in front of his body compared in shape or form to the rainbow you show in your windshield wiper article illustrating the more conventional forehand? In other words, how does the swing path differ?

This question is very, very interesting. From what I've seen, the straighter the arm, the quicker and tighter the wiper motion. Federer and Nadal, when they really straighten the arm, don't get that full rainbow I show in the article. It's the same rainbow but quicker and more explosive and comes ACROSS the body a lot more. It comes across because the contact point is so far forward that you just can't hit forward much at all.

On my homepage, check out the windshield wiper rainbow Federer is generating. If you look at his contact point, you will see he just can't go forward much. So he wipes up and over.

Also really focus in on Federer's right shoulder muscle. You can see how it supports and drives the wiper motion. Most people focus on just his hand and miss the supporting structure behind the turning hand.

http://www.hi-techtennis.com/

[GMann]

Thanks for that information. In previous posts, you seemed to say that it is virtually impossible to copy that Federer/Nadal straight/wrist cocked arm stroke unless you are an unusual athlete (read: freak). Now that you seem to be discovering several other players who use the straight arm/wrist cocked stroke, are you becoming more optimistic that you can teach this stroke to us "mere mortals?"

Curious to know if you yourself have been physically able to hit this stroke now that you've studied it so much.

[evikshin]

Hi Gmann,


regardng Fed and nadal's straight arm: after watching the videos, it seems that they have the slightest of bends in their arms, but because they have long, thin, sinewy arms, their anatomy creates the illusion that their arms are perfectly straight (if you look closely on video, its not). I have relatively short (I'm only 5 foot 6), muscular arms, so my arm appears to have more of a bend even when its close to being straight. Even when i lock my arm straight, the musculature makes my arm look like its slightly bent.

I started to naturally hit with a much straighter arm when i learned to pronate and windshield wipe with an eastern grip. I think of flinging my arm through the contact zone and pronating the forearm through the ball, while keeping the wrist quiet (not actively breaking the wrist). this seems to stretch my arm out at contact (at least on video).

[markus_vafaan]

[QUOTE=evikshin]Hi Gmann,

regardng Fed and nadal's straight arm: after watching the videos, it seems that they have the slightest of bends in their arms, but because they have long, thin, sinewy arms, their anatomy creates the illusion that their arms are perfectly straight (if you look closely on video, its not).

You can not seriously mean that Rafael Nadal´s arm is not muscular??

[llll]

heavy ball

a hard forehand that has a flatter trajectory will not jump as high as foward with alot of topspin. the more arc by itself will get the ball to bounce higher how much turbocharge it has will be dependent on spin rpm. ie when learning the kick serve by hitting up on the ball you get a higher clearanc (trajectory) over the net so the ball bounce up, but to get the kick you need to impart the spin.

[leis]

Heavy Ball

In my situation, if I am not in position to have the racket face pointing toward the ground prior to a mostly abdominal -generated unit turn, I tend to lose the correct combination of forward drive and spin ("the heavy"), regardless of the particulars in the windshield wiper followthrough.

[mntlblok]

Spiralspin

when learning the kick serve by hitting up on the ball you get a higher clearanc (trajectory) over the net so the ball bounce up, but to get the kick you need to impart the spin.

After recently reading "Technical Tennis" (which I found to be much more than just a short version of "The Physics and Technology of Tennis"), it looks to me like that particular spin is the "spiralspin" that they talk about in the book.

I've also been exploring the spiral spin aspect of certain drop shots. Fascinating and fun stuff. I highly recommend the book.

Kevin
Savannah