2019 Barcelona Open Banc Sabadell...ATP 500...Barcelona, Spain

[don_budge]

https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/cu...chtype=singles

Technically not a tournament (absence of Roger Federer). The match to hope for is Stefanos Tsitsipas versus Rafael "The Skunk" Nadal in the quarterfinals. What was it that Tsitsipas said about Nadal after losing to him at the Australian Open?

Alexander Zverev seeded number two. Any questions?

[stroke]

Db, are you picking Zverev to win this thing or am I misinterpreting your post?

[stroke]

I was just watching the 1st set in Budapest between Tomic and Bedene, both now ranked in the 70's. Tomic probably decided this week for direct entry into Budapest vs qualies in Barcelona. Tomic played a great 1st set and fell just short vs Bedene, who also played a great 1st set. Just so many great players out there . As the 3 great ones begin to move on from the game, I think we are going to now see many more surprise finalists like Lajovic last week. I have said it before but Tomic needs a full on get fitter commitment. Like Fabio to me, he could win a Master's 1000 or even Grand Slam(non clay for both) to me.

[nytennisaddict]

hehe, sentimentally rooting for ferrer to win the tourney!

looking forward to
* tsit v nadal.
* thiem v khach
* fog v shap... then hoping for some combo of fog/shap v faa

while zvev has clay titles, he looked vulnerable at MC

would be fun to see fog v nadal... while i'm generally a big nadal fan, he's been making alot of excuses as of late... so wouldn't be sad t see fog take it to him again... to make nadal a bit more humble & hungry for FO.

[edit] side note... i played at the real club de tennis last year... amazing how different the club gets transformed during the tourney. ie. the main stadium court doesn't exist throughout the year. and i've never played on courts surrounded by tall privet hedges... makes you feel like you're tucked away in your own private court without no one around (despite players being all around).

[stroke]

As db pointed out in an earlier post, Nadal is such a competitor. Down a set and 5-0 to a full flight Fabio, he continued to fight as if he was right in the thick of the match. He had to work hard to get it to 5-2, and Fabio had to rain down more roped winners to take the match. Nadal stands alone in this regard. Fed is close in this regard. Those 2 players just do not give in. Novak is definitely right there with them as a champion, but his mental toughness is not there with Nadal and Fed to me. Nadal is no hungrier for the FO than before the Fabio loss. His hunger stays at the highest level.

[don_budge]

Db, are you picking Zverev to win this thing or am I misinterpreting your post?

No...I was just pointing out the sad obvious truth about young Alexander Zverev. Questions...questions...questions. What happened to this up and comer so that now he is just a down and outer? Mind games. The mind can play some rather devious tricks on you and this poor lad has had himself a bad bit of a mindfuck. It is an adventure every time he steps out on the court now. Seeded second? Wishful thinking.

To be honest I would actually like to see him win something. It's pretty sad seeing him fighting himself nowadays. Just terrible. But I really think that he got way too much attention and too soon. I would hope for his sake that he can regroup. But the problem is one of confidence. Once he reached the dizzying heights where he is now he sort of lost perspective. He seems to have lost that hunger for the fight. Just as you discussed the fire that Nadal brings to the court every time he steps on it...Nadal is a guy who would kick his own grandmother in the shins to win a match. Alexander doesn't have that kind of balls. At least not yet.

Stefanos Tsitsipas won a big match. In this stage of development they are all important. All big matches. Fuscovic is a good competitor. I didn't see the match but a straight forward straight set win is exactly what you want in the early rounds of a tournament. It is entirely about confidence at a certain level. The confidence of knowing that if you go out and just scrap tooth and nail for every single point you can win a given match. The next match gets just a tad bigger and if he can win that match he gets the prize enchilada...a rematch with Señor Nadal. But one cannot afford to look too far ahead. Best to stay in the moment...that point just in front of your nose. This is what Nadal does best of all. That guy is so in the moment he is like some sort of beast. Roger Federer is there too. He is a bit more polished looking at it.

Zverev has to get over himself. The past is the past. Sure he had some big wins. Sure he has had a bunch of bad losses. Do you know how much that means each and every time he steps out on the court? Nothing...that's how much. Both Nadal and Federer know this. Zverev is so confused right now. He doesn't know if he is as good as he was made out to be when he had a hot hand or is he as bad as it feels to lose to a lot of players he should be routinely dispatching on route to the next round. Head case.

[stotty]

As db pointed out in an earlier post, Nadal is such a competitor. Down a set and 5-0 to a full flight Fabio, he continued to fight as if he was right in the thick of the match. He had to work hard to get it to 5-2, and Fabio had to rain down more roped winners to take the match. Nadal stands alone in this regard. Fed is close in this regard. Those 2 players just do not give in. Novak is definitely right there with them as a champion, but his mental toughness is not there with Nadal and Fed to me. Nadal is no hungrier for the FO than before the Fabio loss. His hunger stays at the highest level.

Though provoking post.

If Rafa had had slightly more form, it looked doable that might come back from 5-0 down. He almost had the momentum to do it at one point. Fognini did the right thing to close out aggressively in the end.

I think Rafa loves to win and hates to lose. I think Roger just loves to win and take losing in his stride. Novak is worrying me a little. It's grind to beat everyone for him and his shot tolerance seems to be waning just lately. So many times against Agut and Medvedev he was the first to bail out in rallies, reaching for drop shots just to try and end rallies. It's like he's losing his rallying threshold at times, which is critical to his success. I once witness Borg serve and volleying on a clay because he'd simply reached the end and had enough. It's tough to play that way.

I think Novak has the weaker temperament of the three, except when he plays Roger or Rafa. Against them he becomes completely focused and resolute and he's mastered them both for many years now. His last Wimbledon semi against Rafa was sensational. He withstood an extraordinary amount to eventually prevail in that match. His temperament in that match was the best you will ever see.

[stotty]

I think Zverez is much like all the next generation players. They all play great tennis but cannot produce it week in week out like the big 3 or other household names of the past. I think the first batch of next gen players has gradually developed a complex. They are being mastered by older men and there is a certain humiliation that comes with that. It could be the next batch (Felix, Tsitsipas, etc.) of players that finally breaks through and develops the stature to dominate the rest of the pack. Who knows? It will interesting to see.

[stroke]

I think Zverez is much like all the next generation players. They all play great tennis but cannot produce it week in week out like the big 3 or other household names of the past. I think the first batch of next gen players has gradually developed a complex. They are being mastered by older men and there is a certain humiliation that comes with that. It could be the next batch (Felix, Tsitsipas, etc.) of players that finally breaks through and develops the stature to dominate the rest of the pack. Who knows? It will interesting to see.

I personally think the dominating days are gone with the 3 great ones, but we will see. db, I was just joking about you picking Alex. I don't think anyone would pick him right now. I think your take on him right now, where he is, is spot on. Today was pretty much a composite for Alex as what you are saying. Still think he will make an impact at the Majors, but as I have said many times, there are no Roger's, Nadal's, and Novak's on tap anytime soon.

[don_budge]

Warning: Going off Topic. Do not continue to read if you are somehow feint of heart when the writer DEVIATES from the thread!!!

I once witnessed Borg serve and volleying on clay because he'd simply reached the end and had enough. It's tough to play that way.

This is something I would have liked to witness myself as Björn Borg was a truly great competitor. It is hard to imagine him going through the motions or you might not even suggesting this. With Borg the serve and volley was an option and even on clay. This man didn't win five Wimbledon titles by being a shrinking violet at the net. But I get your point.

Here is a match that I love to post. Two beautiful artists waving at the ball with their little tiny wooden racquets. Adrianno Pannatta and Björn Borg at the Båstad Open. It's a lovely tournament and it is where I witnessed my first foray into the world of modern tennis after a so many year sabbatical from the game. It is where I saw the other Italian "rascal" Fabio Fognini. He was the first player that caught my eye at the tournament. It was a tournament that Robin Söderling lost in the finals to Niclas Almegro perhaps. He double faulted on match point and I wrote his father a letter on why it would be a good idea for Robin to reconsider his service motion and his tactics. The two go hand in hand you know.

But this is a wonderful match to watch and it sort of dispels a couple of myths in the process. One of them is about the volleying ability of Borg and another is about the classic game in general. The frequency of net play on this clay court is higher than the modern game at Wimbledon on the grass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ6BuRtiaxA

I believe that Borg may have been even younger than Zverev here. Somehow he dealt with the expectations differently. For one thing he had way more game.

[stroke]

Though provoking post.

If Rafa had had slightly more form, it looked doable that might come back from 5-0 down. He almost had the momentum to do it at one point. Fognini did the right thing to close out aggressively in the end.

I think Rafa loves to win and hates to lose. I think Roger just loves to win and take losing in his stride. Novak is worrying me a little. It's grind to beat everyone for him and his shot tolerance seems to be waning just lately. So many times against Agut and Medvedev he was the first to bail out in rallies, reaching for drop shots just to try and end rallies. It's like he's losing his rallying threshold at times, which is critical to his success. I once witness Borg serve and volleying on a clay because he'd simply reached the end and had enough. It's tough to play that way.

I think Novak has the weaker temperament of the three, except when he plays Roger or Rafa. Against them he becomes completely focused and resolute and he's mastered them both for many years now. His last Wimbledon semi against Rafa was sensational. He withstood an extraordinary amount to eventually prevail in that match. His temperament in that match was the best you will ever see.

"except when he plays Roger or Rafa", I agree. The 2015 Wimbledon win over Roger was a perfect example of this. Roger had lost to him there the previous year, Roger was completely in form, the crowd was more behind Roger than any crowd I can remember, but Novak prevailed. Too good. Just as impressive was taking out Rafa at the FO, but there he at least did not have to deal with the crowd being completely behind his opponent. And the irony of it is to me, Roger probably does not need the crowd support as much as Novak because of his unwavering confidence in himself.

[stotty]

Warning: Going off Topic. Do not continue to read if you are somehow feint of heart when the writer DEVIATES from the thread!!!



This is something I would have liked to witness myself as Björn Borg was a truly great competitor. It is hard to imagine him going through the motions or you might not even suggesting this. With Borg the serve and volley was an option and even on clay. This man didn't win five Wimbledon titles by being a shrinking violet at the net. But I get your point.

Sorry...the fun starts once we go off thread.

"Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans." - John Lennon


Borg has reached his end by this point. He was starting to self-destruct in my opinion. He had become bored. Here was a player who could rally longer than anyone, probably longer than anyone today, or in the past. He had the highest threshold imaginable. You just got the impression he had had enough towards the end of his career.

His volleys were ugly but he was certainly better at the net than most would give him credit for. He was great at popping volleys away and rarely missed anything he shouldn't. He was just so mentally strong in his prime, wasn't he? His greatest strength was him himself.

[nytennisaddict]

Warning: Going off Topic. Do not continue to read if you are somehow feint of heart when the writer DEVIATES from the thread!!!

ha!

[nytennisaddict]

No...I was just pointing out the sad obvious truth about young Alexander Zverev. Questions...questions...questions. What happened to this up and comer so that now he is just a down and outer? Mind games. The mind can play some rather devious tricks on you and this poor lad has had himself a bad bit of a mindfuck. It is an adventure every time he steps out on the court now. Seeded second? Wishful thinking.

To be honest I would actually like to see him win something. It's pretty sad seeing him fighting himself nowadays. Just terrible. But I really think that he got way too much attention and too soon. I would hope for his sake that he can regroup. But the problem is one of confidence. Once he reached the dizzying heights where he is now he sort of lost perspective. He seems to have lost that hunger for the fight. Just as you discussed the fire that Nadal brings to the court every time he steps on it...Nadal is a guy who would kick his own grandmother in the shins to win a match. Alexander doesn't have that kind of balls. At least not yet.

Stefanos Tsitsipas won a big match. In this stage of development they are all important. All big matches. Fuscovic is a good competitor. I didn't see the match but a straight forward straight set win is exactly what you want in the early rounds of a tournament. It is entirely about confidence at a certain level. The confidence of knowing that if you go out and just scrap tooth and nail for every single point you can win a given match. The next match gets just a tad bigger and if he can win that match he gets the prize enchilada...a rematch with Señor Nadal. But one cannot afford to look too far ahead. Best to stay in the moment...that point just in front of your nose. This is what Nadal does best of all. That guy is so in the moment he is like some sort of beast. Roger Federer is there too. He is a bit more polished looking at it.

Zverev has to get over himself. The past is the past. Sure he had some big wins. Sure he has had a bunch of bad losses. Do you know how much that means each and every time he steps out on the court? Nothing...that's how much. Both Nadal and Federer know this. Zverev is so confused right now. He doesn't know if he is as good as he was made out to be when he had a hot hand or is he as bad as it feels to lose to a lot of players he should be routinely dispatching on route to the next round. Head case.

good call on zverev.

[stroke]

Kei routines FAA 1st on court today. Nadal, who is clearly struggling by his clay standard, plays Ferrer today. Ferrer has been playing well. Could be very interesting. Fabio withdrew this tournament. May be thinking he can make a full on run at FO.