Can a 5'3" 110lb 20 year old female hit a 100mph serve? video

[nytennisaddict]

I still dont know what a lateral pinpoint stance is but I'm going to take your word that its' an actual tennis term that I've somehow missed throughout the years but more to the point.....

You and I are worlds apart in our perspectives. You see someone serving a tennis ball and look at the stance and whatever else catches your intention and ignore the ball. I look at someone serving and look at the ball and what its doing and if the serve is a good one I dont look for things to fix.

If someone can serve with consistency, pace, spin and placement they have everything they need and it will continue to improve on its own. The mind and body have a way of finding more effective and efficient ways to do things through repetition of fundamentals. If you are practicing the correct things the universe slowly unfolds for you, Things certianly change over time as you become enlightened through the process. Federer had a significantly different forehand ten years ago then he does today.

If the player in the video, who happens to be my daughter, had a very obvious deficiency that caused inconsistency, lack of spin or pace etc your response would make sense but when any 5'3" female can serve like her it boggles the mind (at least my mind) why you would suggest changing things. You've seen a single serve from her which happens to be a very good serve and you're ready to rebuild her serve simply because you dont like the way she stands.. I'm unable to find the logic in that.

At any rate I'm beating a dead hoarse. You're entitled to your perspective no matter how illogical it is.. Just kidding Slotty!

BTW,
My daughter is tentatively scheduled to play a match next week against a former top 80 WTA player who is still in her late 20s or early 30s. I plan on recording it and if you're interested maybe I'll post it so you can see how her serve holds up... and then we can argue some more about her stance being ineffective or whatever else you want to argue about.

.

i’d definitely be up for seeing that match!

hehe, i’d bet a dollar I know who she’s hitting with (first initial “A”). i’ve been in her 4.5 clinics. up for meeting up some time?

[don_budge]

i don't have a consistent enough serve (for the 4.5+ to 5.0 level), to be thinking overly about tactics.
typically my "tactics" consistent of pointing it to the weaker wing, and a) seeing if it went it b) seeing if it went where i wanted it to go...
in the rare occasion i'm feeling on... i'll follow the typical patterns..
* serve to weak side 3 of 4 times, serve body/strong side to 1x to keep them honest.
* go wide, run around bh, looking for a fh
* change up timing by mixing pace... flat body, followed by spinners (slice or kick) out wide or T
* s&v a bit if they are chipping/blocking floaty returns
etc...

i definitely have a pitcher's mentallity out there, especially because i don't have a 120 mph bomb

Good stuff. Pitcher mentality...that's the ticket. Service tactics. You don't have the bomb so you work with what you've got. Too bad you can't serve a knuckler. But I would think that the slice...even extreme slice should be a big part of your repertoire. You might monkey around with changing your position on the baseline from where you serve. I saw Daniil Medvedev was using this tactic against Novak Djokovic at the Australian Open. Standing almost in the doubles alley when serving to the deuce. Even from this position you have options. The obvious is to go wide but the other one that might be just as effective if mixed effectively is the slice into the body. I think that this is an underused tactic against two handed backhands that I feel is effective.

As a baseball pitcher you set the batter up with the previous way that you have thrown to him. It is a bit of cat and mouse...as a duel. Same thing from the ad side you should develop as big a kick to take your opponent out of the court which means landing the ball more up the line as well. But being able to deliver a nice slice from that angle might get you the element of surprise.

Developing service tactics are just as important as developing speed. The score definitely has a lot to do with the tactics as well. Playing to the score.

[stotty]

I still dont know what a lateral pinpoint stance is but I'm going to take your word that its' an actual tennis term that I've somehow missed throughout the years but more to the point.....

You and I are worlds apart in our perspectives. You see someone serving a tennis ball and look at the stance and whatever else catches your intention and ignore the ball. I look at someone serving and look at the ball and what its doing and if the serve is a good one I dont look for things to fix.

If someone can serve with consistency, pace, spin and placement they have everything they need and it will continue to improve on its own. The mind and body have a way of finding more effective and efficient ways to do things through repetition of fundamentals. If you are practicing the correct things the universe slowly unfolds for you, Things certianly change over time as you become enlightened through the process. Federer had a significantly different forehand ten years ago then he does today.

If the player in the video, who happens to be my daughter, had a very obvious deficiency that caused inconsistency, lack of spin or pace etc your response would make sense but when any 5'3" female can serve like her it boggles the mind (at least my mind) why you would suggest changing things. You've seen a single serve from her which happens to be a very good serve and you're ready to rebuild her serve simply because you dont like the way she stands.. I'm unable to find the logic in that.

At any rate I'm beating a dead horse. You're entitled to your perspective no matter how illogical it is.. Just kidding Slotty!

BTW,
My daughter is tentatively scheduled to play a match next week against a former top 80 WTA player who is still in her late 20s or early 30s. I plan on recording it and if you're interested maybe I'll post it so you can see how her serve holds up... and then we can argue some more about her stance being ineffective or whatever else you want to argue about.

.

No, you're definitely coming round to my way of thinking. Your only concern at the start the thread was whether the serve was moving 100mph and whether it was an ace or not. Now you're talking the combination of spin, pace and placement and practicing through good fundamentals. That's good coaching.

I don't think Roger's forehand has changed hardly at all in ten years, just his racket.

Pinpoint is where the rear foot moves up and clips neatly to the front foot like this: https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...LevelSide1.mov

Lateral pinpoint is where the rear foot ends up well to the right of the front foot like your daughter. It's a very valid serve but pinpoint and platform are generally better because the rear leg, in my view, can play a greater role. Platform is the most preferred stance amongst coaches because less can go wrong with it...less moving parts. This is particularly the case when children are young and the serve is forming.

I wasn't suggesting a rebuild, just suggesting you might consider something. Rafa is 32 and recently adjusted his serve. Novak has readjusted his serve quite significantly three times during his career. Players can always improve their serve and at 20 there is no harm exploring every nook and cranny. Just try something was my suggestion.

Anyway, I have tried my best and happy to check out of the thread from here. Good luck.

[stroke]

Error,
You might want to take a look at this:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/biomechanics/ben_kibler/cocking_loading_and_the_back_foot/?new=true

I am going to be diplomatic and just say what passes for knowledge in the general tennis world can be inaccurate. You can hit a good even great serve with any stance, but the extreme pinpoint--what Stotty correctly call the lateral pinpoint--is the least likely way to do it.

I really like that presentation. Good stuff and entirely relevant here in this discussion

[nytennisaddict]

Good stuff. Pitcher mentality...that's the ticket. Service tactics. You don't have the bomb so you work with what you've got. Too bad you can't serve a knuckler. But I would think that the slice...even extreme slice should be a big part of your repertoire. You might monkey around with changing your position on the baseline from where you serve. I saw Daniil Medvedev was using this tactic against Novak Djokovic at the Australian Open. Standing almost in the doubles alley when serving to the deuce. Even from this position you have options. The obvious is to go wide but the other one that might be just as effective if mixed effectively is the slice into the body. I think that this is an underused tactic against two handed backhands that I feel is effective.

As a baseball pitcher you set the batter up with the previous way that you have thrown to him. It is a bit of cat and mouse...as a duel. Same thing from the ad side you should develop as big a kick to take your opponent out of the court which means landing the ball more up the line as well. But being able to deliver a nice slice from that angle might get you the element of surprise.

Developing service tactics are just as important as developing speed. The score definitely has a lot to do with the tactics as well. Playing to the score.

thx.
honestly even the underhand serve is part of the repertoire... even if only in warmup, to get them thinking i *might* do it.
typical first serve patterns:
* during warmup, particularly focus on the serves i have trouble with (eg. deuce out wide)
* early first set: typically topslice to body (leaning to the bh)... mainly because it's a high margin, and they still have to "warmup" their returns
* presuming i'm feeling good, and the score dictates, i'll start moving the ball around the box... eg. if 30-15, i'll go for the corners (T and sideT), if 40-15 i'll go for flat body, if 40-love, i'll go for my lowest % serve (eg. underhand or flat to the corners)
* from a "combo" perspective... i like to go to the T's (center/side) first, with spin... draw them closer (ie. they want to cut off the angles), then hit them with the flat body (to "brush them off the plate" figuratively speaking)... if i'm successful at back them up, i then like to go very shallow in the box (eg. extreme slow moving slice halfway up the box, or a 1st serve kicker very short in the box)
* i generally like to target the bh 3x, then go the fh 1x (approximate ratio), just to keep them guessing. prefer going to the fh mainly when i'm up in the score (eg. if they hit a winner, i'm still even with them)
* in generally i don't ever like giving someone 2-3 looks of the same kind of serve in a row (spin/pace/placement).

second serves are a bit more black/white... mostly a kicker to weaker wing... but 1 in 4 to the stronger wing especially if they are cheating... occasionall throw in a heavy slice, just to give them something different to chew on.

i also have s&v tactics "combined" with serving... because while i don't normally s&v alot, i like to throw it in, especially if they are good at floating/blocking back returns

not a comprehensive list, but that's generally the tactics i employ.

[nytennisaddict]

Error,
You might want to take a look at this:
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...foot/?new=true

I am going to be diplomatic and just say what passes for knowledge in the general tennis world can be inaccurate. You can hit a good even great serve with any stance, but the extreme pinpoint--what Stotty correctly call the lateral pinpoint--is the least likely way to do it.

really good presentation.... thx for posting it.
personally i like pin point over the platform because:
a) allows me to serve off both feet more (platform i tend to only push off the front leg).
b) allows me to pushup up and through contact... in my mind i'm imparting more topspin this way... wherease platform since it's more rotation, lets me get more slice (i know there's an upward component even with platform, but i feel like i personally get more via the pinpoint stance).

[nytennisaddict]

No, you're definitely coming round to my way of thinking. Your only concern at the start the thread was whether the serve was moving 100mph and whether it was an ace or not. Now you're talking the combination of spin, pace and placement and practicing through good fundamentals. That's good coaching.

I don't think Roger's forehand has changed hardly at all in ten years, just his racket.

Pinpoint is where the rear foot moves up and clips neatly to the front foot like this: https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...LevelSide1.mov

Lateral pinpoint is where the rear foot ends up well to the right of the front foot like your daughter. It's a very valid serve but pinpoint and platform are generally better because the rear leg, in my view, can play a greater role. Platform is the most preferred stance amongst coaches because less can go wrong with it...less moving parts. This is particularly the case when children are young and the serve is forming.

I wasn't suggesting a rebuild, just suggesting you might consider something. Rafa is 32 and recently adjusted his serve. Novak has readjusted his serve quite significantly three times during his career. Players can always improve their serve and at 20 there is no harm exploring every nook and cranny. Just try something was my suggestion.

Anyway, I have tried my best and happy to check out of the thread from here. Good luck.

i think this is lateral pinpoint? https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Ixx-MCC7D88
what are the pros/cons, why does Pat teach it that way? to me it makes sense in terms of allowing more coil (hip/shoulder angle separation)

a theory i've been going over in my head, which applies to my own evolution of why i gravitated to the pinpoint stance... for me, the pinpoint stance let's me more easily adjust (chase?) variations in my toss... whereas, in platform, if my toss is off, even a little bit, the entire load feels off.

discuss!

[stotty]

i think this is lateral pinpoint? https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Ixx-MCC7D88
what are the pros/cons, why does Pat teach it that way? to me it makes sense in terms of allowing more coil (hip/shoulder angle separation)

a theory i've been going over in my head, which applies to my own evolution of why i gravitated to the pinpoint stance... for me, the pinpoint stance let's me more easily adjust (chase?) variations in my toss... whereas, in platform, if my toss is off, even a little bit, the entire load feels off.

discuss!

I could discuss it all day but it is pretty much summarised right here. https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...erve/?new=true

[nytennisaddict]

I could discuss it all day but it is pretty much summarised right here. https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...erve/?new=true

ah, thx. yeah, i'd agree with that from my own personal experience.
when i experimented with a bigger upper body rotation (via lateral pinpoint to increase hip/shoulder separation), i found it very awkward as well.

[Error]

No, you're definitely coming round to my way of thinking. Your only concern at the start the thread was whether the serve was moving 100mph and whether it was an ace or not. Now you're talking the combination of spin, pace and placement and practicing through good fundamentals. That's good coaching..

My only concern was demonstrating a good serve built on fundamentals. I knew it was an ace. The spin placement and pace is self evident so my perspective hasn't changed. I was demonstrating, mostly for NYTA, the results of concentrating on the basics and not worrying about the peripheral stuff. We are way past the point of being impressed with pace for the sake of it. I'm not knew to this. Ive spent more time on court in the last two days than most people do in a month.

I don't think Roger's forehand has changed hardly at all in ten years, just his racket.

Its very obvious its changed. Its well documented on youtube, He did none of the wristy stuff that he does now. That's the body and mind figuring out how to become more efficient and effective. At least that's my theory. Like when you practice the basic fundamentals of a serve, it naturally develops over time and morphs into something else. You see this with many pros.

Platform is the most preferred stance amongst coaches because less can go wrong with it.

This sounds more like your theory. HOWEVER, I'll take your word for it but it still wont change my mind

I wasn't suggesting a rebuild, just suggesting you might consider something. Rafa is 32 and recently adjusted his serve. Novak has readjusted his serve quite significantly three times during his career. Players can always improve their serve and at 20 there is no harm exploring every nook and cranny. Just try something was my suggestion.

Nothing wrong with that. I was irked because I see 3.5 players on other boards giving lots of advice on tennis technique and I thought "here we go again".

[Error]

i’d definitely be up for seeing that match!

hehe, i’d bet a dollar I know who she’s hitting with (first initial “A”). i’ve been in her 4.5 clinics. up for meeting up some time?

Sure! I'm waiting to hear back. I have the upcoming weekend off so I'm trying to arrange the match on short notice so I'm crossing my fingers. She has her conference finals in the beginning of May. They are the 2nd seed and need to beat two teams to make it to NCAAs. She should be practicing more than ever but with college and work and the lack of players here, its very difficult. What's your availability on weekends?

[nytennisaddict]

Sure! I'm waiting to hear back. I have the upcoming weekend off so I'm trying to arrange the match on short notice so I'm crossing my fingers. She has her conference finals in the beginning of May. They are the 2nd seed and need to beat two teams to make it to NCAAs. She should be practicing more than ever but with college and work and the lack of players here, its very difficult. What's your availability on weekends?

sent pm

[don_budge]

Not able to see the video. Anyone have any suggestions? Error...can you post it to youtube?

[Error]

Not able to see the video. Anyone have any suggestions? Error...can you post it to youtube?

I took it down because I didn't want it to become a study in what she's doing wrong. I didn't post it for analysis. In hindsight I was probably naive in my hope that it would be viewed for what it is. Perhaps my experience with youtube educated 3.5 "coaches" who, oddly enough, seem to be experts on technique caused a somewhat knee jerk reaction.

The video was a video of a video because I didn't know how to isolate a small section but I've since learned how to do it so I can re post if you like. I dont record her much, I have bits and pieces here and there and I'm the world's worst videographer.