Can a 5'3" 110lb 20 year old female hit a 100mph serve? video

[Error]

[stotty]

The serve looked a tad out but that's by the by. A 100mph is quick and I don't trust most of the gimmicky forms of measurement out there. It's not that I disbelieve you, just I am skeptical of speed devices.

She is a little unusual with her lateral pinpoint stance. It's a method that has all but disappeared in the men's game and no doubt the women's game too. I use lateral pinpoint myself and have a relatively smooth motion, but the problem is the right leg acts as a stabiliser rather than a driver, which is a downside. Both standard pinpoint and platform are relatively easy to learn later in the day for a player and come with the benefit of being able to drive up with the right leg as well as the left. I would recommend she switches to one or the other as it's really quite easy for a player of her ability to do.

It would be nice to see her serve full length; with feet and full ball toss in view, as it tells us more. A high speed clip would be nice too. She doesn't come out of her drive all that smoothly and it would be nice to take a closer look at that.

[Error]

[Error]

The serve looked a tad out but that's by the by.

Her opponent had a much better view than a grainy 2nd addition video and he called it in.

A 100mph is quick and I don't trust most of the gimmicky forms of measurement out there. It's not that I disbelieve you, just I am skeptical of speed devices.

It's not perfect but its surprisingly reasonable compared to the radar gun at the club which we've used in the past. Her serve averaged 77 mph 3 years ago, She definitely serves much faster now.

She is a little unusual with her lateral pinpoint stance. It's a method that has all but disappeared in the men's game and no doubt the women's game too

You can pretty much see the exact stance on the pro tour by watching just about any video on youtube. She's changed stance a few times, None of it matters a whole lot to the quality of the serve.

It would be nice to see her serve full length; with feet and full ball toss in view, as it tells us more

What more do you need to know? lol. Just look at the ball! That's all that matters and this player gets about as much out of that ball as any person her size ever will. Why get caught up in nonsensical analysis? I'm not insulting you but you cant see the forest for the trees. Its what happens to the BALL that matters not the stance or drive, or pronation or...... And by the way her motion is very smooth.

[nytennisaddict]

Serve looked good... agree about the amount of effort it takes to improve your serve.
regardless of the specific technique being used... the timing & sync'ing of the various power sources is critical.

the same kind of thing happens in martial arts. for something as simple as a leg kick (low roundhouse kick)... i had the opportunity to train with a former world muy thai champ (fly weight (~110-120), and when getting kicked "lightly" in a demo... his kick felt heavier than a "normal" kick from a 200lb novice. talking to the champ, about how he developed such a heavy kick... basically millions of reps. for him it was about sync'ing the hip turn, pivot, arms, precise targeting, etc...

clearly cibulkova (also 5'3") can serve >100: http://2015.usopen.org/en_US/scores/...y7/2132ms.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZWGyY7z4w

[don_budge]

Her opponent had a much better view than a grainy 2nd addition video and he called it in.

It's not perfect but its surprisingly reasonable compared to the radar gun at the club which we've used in the past. Her serve averaged 77 mph 3 years ago, She definitely serves much faster now.

You can pretty much see the exact stance on the pro tour by watching just about any video on youtube. She's changed stance a few times, None of it matters a whole lot to the quality of the serve.

What more do you need to know? lol. Just look at the ball! That's all that matters and this player gets about as much out of that ball as any person her size ever will. Why get caught up in nonsensical analysis? I'm not insulting you but you cant see the forest for the trees. Its what happens to the BALL that matters not the stance or drive, or pronation or...... And by the way her motion is very smooth.

Insulting? Only if someone were to take you serious. You've come on like gangbusters. But from what I have seen so far is "all hat and no cattle".

The serve looked a tad out but that's by the by. A 100mph is quick and I don't trust most of the gimmicky forms of measurement out there. It's not that I disbelieve you, just I am skeptical of speed devices.

She is a little unusual with her lateral pinpoint stance. It's a method that has all but disappeared in the men's game and no doubt the women's game too. I use lateral pinpoint myself and have a relatively smooth motion, but the problem is the right leg acts as a stabiliser rather than a driver, which is a downside. Both standard pinpoint and platform are relatively easy to learn later in the day for a player and come with the benefit of being able to drive up with the right leg as well as the left. I would recommend she switches to one or the other as it's really quite easy for a player of her ability to do.

It would be nice to see her serve full length; with feet and full ball toss in view, as it tells us more. A high speed clip would be nice too. She doesn't come out of her drive all that smoothly and it would be nice to take a closer look at that.

I have yet to see the serve but I would like to. Many times in the past BE (Before Error) I have dissected serves on this forum. But from your comments I get the picture. I would take exception right off the bat to with any sort of pin point stance. Extra unnecessary motion. Always. I complicates the timing of the toss.

One hundred miles per hour? So what. What kind of percentage serve is that for a 5' 3" college coed? Not much I would hazard to guess. I'm not impressed with speed unless it is intelligently combined with spin and placement...not to mention tactics. Was it in or out? Who cares? Error takes himself way to seriously.

Another fallacy that has come up in these discussions about the serve is all of this wild talk of excessive practice. This is tantamount to listening to some golfer bragging about how many golf balls he hits on the range. To what end? Most are just ingraining the bad habits that they already struggle with. Unless you have some idea it really doesn't make sense to make such a grandiose effort in practice. A waste of time. Thirty or fifty reps a day with concentration on aim, placement, tactics, spin is plenty. Better off playing sets and simulated match play. Maybe that is why the young lady could not mentally handle her "tougher" opponent...she spends too much time "on the range" when she would be better off simulating match play in practice.

But I have no illusions about the new fellow Error. He is one bombastic know it all. He is coaching his daughter and she is in college. So what? One student does not a teacher make. But best of luck anyways...Error. You are going to need it. Stotty is a well respected coach here and a nice fellow as well. He has been posting for many years...asking questions as well as expressing opinions. You have already called my opinion ridiculous and we haven't even warmed up. Once we get "the ball" in play as you say I am going to pin your ears back. With extreme prejudice. I actually played the game and taught it too. My service motion was perfect and it held up in competition for many years.

[nytennisaddict]

Insulting? Only if someone were to take you serious. You've come on like gangbusters. But from what I have seen so far is "all hat and no cattle".



I have yet to see the serve but I would like to. Many times in the past BE (Before Error) I have dissected serves on this forum. But from your comments I get the picture. I would take exception right off the bat to with any sort of pin point stance. Extra unnecessary motion. Always. I complicates the timing of the toss.

One hundred miles per hour? So what. What kind of percentage serve is that for a 5' 3" college coed? Not much I would hazard to guess. I'm not impressed with speed unless it is intelligently combined with spin and placement...not to mention tactics. Was it in or out? Who cares? Error takes himself way to seriously.

Another fallacy that has come up in these discussions about the serve is all of this wild talk of excessive practice. This is tantamount to listening to some golfer bragging about how many golf balls he hits on the range. To what end? Most are just ingraining the bad habits that they already struggle with. Unless you have some idea it really doesn't make sense to make such a grandiose effort in practice. A waste of time. Thirty or fifty reps a day with concentration on aim, placement, tactics, spin is plenty. Better off playing sets and simulated match play. Maybe that is why the young lady could not mentally handle her "tougher" opponent...she spends too much time "on the range" when she would be better off simulating match play in practice.

But I have no illusions about the new fellow Error. He is one bombastic know it all. He is coaching his daughter and she is in college. So what? One student does not a teacher make. But best of luck anyways...Error. You are going to need it. Stotty is a well respected coach here and a nice fellow as well. He has been posting for many years...asking questions as well as expressing opinions. You have already called my opinion ridiculous and we haven't even warmed up. Once we get "the ball" in play as you say I am going to pin your ears back. With extreme prejudice. I actually played the game and taught it too. My service motion was perfect and it held up in competition for many years.

yeah, but if you look past all the fluff, the points in his threads are legit... ie. need lots of regular practice that most folks are unwilling to do (instead most folks would rather arm chair quarterback by dissecting every nuance,... without actually spending much time investing in their own muscle memory of the serve).

regarding 5'3" and 100mph... i'm in the same boat. I'm 5'4" and recently maxed at 103 (if you believe the sony sensor)... while it's not my avg 1st serve (if flat, typically low to mid 90's), i think it's more an indicator of what can be... (i look at it as raw rhs potential which i could choose to use as pace or spin, or combo)... for his daughter, even if it's not consistent now, the potential is there, even if it needs another 10k reps.

[stotty]

Insulting? Only if someone were to take you serious. You've come on like gangbusters. But from what I have seen so far is "all hat and no cattle".

I have yet to see the serve but I would like to. Many times in the past BE (Before Error) I have dissected serves on this forum. But from your comments I get the picture. I would take exception right off the bat to with any sort of pin point stance. Extra unnecessary motion. Always. I complicates the timing of the toss.

The girl has a decent serve, plenty to work with. She is definitely three-quarters of the way there. But you know how it is with serves. A tweak here and there can make all the difference and eke that little bit more out of a player.

[Error]

don_budge said,

One hundred miles per hour? So what. What kind of percentage serve is that for a 5' 3" college coed? Not much I would hazard to guess. I'm not impressed with speed unless it is intelligently combined with spin and placement...

Intelligently combined? The speed, placement and spin is self evident. Its PLACED down the T. The SPIN makes it kick up 3 ft on the curtain and the SPEED is obvius. What more do you need? It seems like she meets your definition of " Intelligently combined", whatever that means. I would think you could easily recognize these attributes in this example without me pointing them out.

As far as impressing you, if a 100mph serve by a girl this size does not impress you I would be interested in hearing what does? It impresses me regardless of who does it. That's the WTA average speed for a first serve. So while I'm not trying to impress you per say, I am making the point that it's practice and not over-scrutinizing and dissecting every micro movement that develops skill. As far as percentages? As you should know, you pick your spots. You dont go all out on every serve but she can serve like this when she wants to go for it and they go in at a reasonable percentage.. I guess you're implying that I cherry picked a serve for you and that she normally doesn't serve like this? I can go through the video of her match and show you some more if that would answer your questions? I think you actually are impressed but wont admit it.. More practice Less talk!!

[Error]

Serve looked good... agree about the amount of effort it takes to improve your serve.
regardless of the specific technique being used... the timing & sync'ing of the various power sources is critical.

the same kind of thing happens in martial arts. for something as simple as a leg kick (low roundhouse kick)..

YES and the timing is everything in all sports! Apparently I'm the black sheep here but if any 5"3 female can hit serves at 100 mph I'm not looking at the damn stance. Who gives a crap if it's pinpoint, platform or hybrid? Don't people have eyes? Dont they look at what the ball is doing? Don't they see that ATP and WTA players use all different stances and serve great with them? I just dont get that perspective. There is no logic behind it.

BTW, Both of my brothers practice jujitsu. My older one winning a few 40 and older tournaments as a blue (I think) belt. Pan American being one of them.

[Error]

for his daughter, even if it's not consistent now, the potential is there, even if it needs another 10k reps.

I think you understood my point perfectly. If I wanted to try and impress people I would throw up the whole video where she goes 5-5 with a male player who was a UTR 11.5 last year in college. The fact is however that she plays at a much lower level when the match counts for something. Her mental is nowhere near developed as her tennis skills. Shes' still working through it.

This thread was more for you than anyone else. You and I were talking about serve and I wanted to give you an example of the results of my fundamental approach. I wasn't saying "Look at my daughter, she's great" I was saying "look at what a small female can do by concentrating on a few basics and practicing like crazy" but then I get responses about her serve not being smooth and her stance is outdated and she can do this and that... I mean I guess I should expect those types of comments but I didn't throw the video up because I was looking for analysis and advice. She's doing just fine!

[gzhpcu]

Can not see the video... link provided gives invalid page. Also, if reps is the solution to tennis, why join tennisplay.net?

[don_budge]

This thread was more for you than anyone else. You and I were talking about serve and I wanted to give you an example of the results of my fundamental approach.

If you and the newyorkcitykid want to have a private conversation why don't you get a room? Or just private message? Otherwise you are addressing a group which is a different which is a different proposition. But back on thread as the newyorktennisaddict likes to say...what is your fundamental approach to serving? What are the fundamentals to developing a service motion?

It's a great thing that you two have worked out here on the forum. You both are new but you act like you own this place. Trust me...there are posters that have been here for years. Neither of you has showed the least amount of respect to the group. Self awareness is not so easily taught once you are past the formative years. But try to intelligently express what you think are the fundamental components to teaching the service motion.

[nytennisaddict]

I think you understood my point perfectly. If I wanted to try and impress people I would throw up the whole video where she goes 5-5 with a male player who was a UTR 11.5 last year in college. The fact is however that she plays at a much lower level when the match counts for something. Her mental is nowhere near developed as her tennis skills. Shes' still working through it.

This thread was more for you than anyone else. You and I were talking about serve and I wanted to give you an example of the results of my fundamental approach. I wasn't saying "Look at my daughter, she's great" I was saying "look at what a small female can do by concentrating on a few basics and practicing like crazy" but then I get responses about her serve not being smooth and her stance is outdated and she can do this and that... I mean I guess I should expect those types of comments but I didn't throw the video up because I was looking for analysis and advice. She's doing just fine!

yeah i appreciate you creating the thread... definitely in the wheel house of what i was looking to discuss, serve wise.
i was interesting in the process of learning that others (especially high level juniors like your daughter) are doing.
one thing i've been missing in my (serve) development, is just the raw reps...
given the numerous vids, articles, this site, etc... i have a decent mental model of what is *supposed* to happen, but converting that into muscle memory is another thing...
so changing my practice sched (and how i practice) to serving at least 1000 balls a week, has made a huge difference in little things like:
* timing
* synchronization of the parts
* developing rhythm,
* getting back into rhythm between points (eg. hitting 10 solid first serves down the T in a row, after hitting 50, is waaaay different that opening up a match serving first)
* getting my heart rate down...
* or being able to serve, when my hear rate is up..
etc...

i appreciate the thread, and discussion.

[nytennisaddict]

Can not see the video... link provided gives invalid page. Also, if reps is the solution to tennis, why join tennisplay.net?

point is that you need both...
solid source of information to refine your mental model of the ideal.... and the reps to convert that mental model into muscle memory.