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2019 BNP Paribas Open...ATP 1000...Indian Wells, Californa

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  • #16
    Expectations are not too low as Fed is the 2nd favorite to win the title at 23/10. Nadal favorite at 17/10. Raonic distant 3rd at 11/2. There is nothing quite like when Fed and Nadal tee it up.

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    • #17

      Originally posted by don_budge View Post


      Nishikori loses to the number 67 ranked player in the world in two consecutive tournaments. Cilic loses to Shapovalov. They are falling like flies. Can we pencil in Federer over Kyle Edmund yet? Better not and be intelligently cautious. Can we project a Shapovalov versus Federer in the quarterfinals? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. What about the possibilities of a Roger Federer versus Rafael Nadal semifinal? Too much to hope for? Then Roger versus Anybody in the final? Easy don_budge...you are in uncharted territory. Just keep that point in front of your nose in focus. Just like Roger is doing. Even though he has excellent peripheral vision he would never admit it. Never let on that he does. One match at a time. One point at a time. Thirty-seven years and ticking. Like a fine wine. The Swiss Maestro. Expectations are low because that's how he rolls. It's all icing on the cake at this point. That's how it is when you are "The Living Proof".

      Originally posted by stroke View Post
      Expectations are not too low as Fed is the 2nd favorite to win the title at 23/10. Nadal favorite at 17/10. Raonic distant 3rd at 11/2. There is nothing quite like when Fed and Nadal tee it up.
      Of course expectations are way up as the whole tennis world is pulling for Roger Federer. I was just pointing out how Roger plays the internal mind game where he doesn't put any pressure on himself...it's as if he has no expectations. But of course on the other hand we know that he does. Like I said...it
      is a game. A fine balancing act in the old noodle and he just so happens to have it down to a science. He amazing in more ways than one. This psychological logistics that he manipulates internally is truly awesome. How he arrives to perform and give it his all. Sometimes it admittedly cannot be there but he really works it.

      In this spot that he is for instance he knows that this match with Huber Hurkacz is a warmup for the main event...the anticipated match with Rafael Nadal. Federer knows the score but in this case Nadal can wait. He hones in on Hurkacz and paints a pretty picture of this guy in his head...and then he will go out and pound him in submission as if everything is riding on this match. He takes it one step at a time. If guys like Alexander Zverev, Francis Tiafoe, Stefanos Tsitsipas and Denis Shapovalov knew how Federer ticks in this regard he could save them light years in development time. Unfortunately it appears that only experience can teach this. I know Roger has had some truly great coaches in the past...Tony Roche being one of them...so he has had a lot of advice and help in this regard. I think that his marriage to Mirna at a relatively young age helped him immensely. After all...behind every great man is a great woman.

      Federer dispatched Kyle Edmund just as well as he possibly could have. This is the key. His consistency of performance match in and match out. He routinely dispatches the lesser thans and saves the big energy for the big matches. He works himself up to a crescendo. In this case he is working himself into a lather for the match with Nadal when he will need it. But he has the ability to do this without really thinking about it. It is only in his peripheral vision. Right now he is squarely focused on the #67 ranked player in the world and he will focus on him like he is the biggest dragon slayer to come around since Merlin. That is how he rolls...and keeps the dreaded expectations from effecting the outcome.
      don_budge
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      • #18
        To me, summing it all up, he does it all, the mental side and the physical side(best technique ever) better than anyone ever has. He will probably be the gold standard in this regard long after he retires. I cannot wait to see if he can continue to take the ball so early on his backhand(like no other one hander has ever been able to do) vs the Nadal forehand again. One has to be grateful to Nadal for matches like that 5th set of the AO last year so we can see just how high a level Fed can perform at. Nadal can force him to perform at his very highest level(as can Novak but for some reason it to me is just not quite as compelling). I think part of it may be that Nadal in his own way is as mentally strong as Fed. Novak is certainly strong mentally also, he has to be to do what he has done, but he can seem to get down on himself sometimes. You just don't ever seem to see that with Roger and Rafa.
        Last edited by stroke; 03-15-2019, 08:04 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by stroke View Post
          To me, summing it all up, he does it all, the mental side and the physical side(best technique ever) better than anyone ever has. He will probably be the gold standard in this regard long after he retires. I cannot wait to see if he can continue to take the ball so early on his backhand(like no other one hander has ever been able to do) vs the Nadal forehand again. One has to be grateful to Nadal for matches like that 5th set of the AO last year so we can see just how high a level Fed can perform at. Nadal can force him to perform at his very highest level(as can Novak but for some reason it to me is just not quite as compelling). I think part of it may be that Nadal in his own way is as mentally strong as Fed. Novak is certainly strong mentally also, he has to be to do what he has done, but he can seem to get down on himself sometimes. You just don't ever seem to see that with Roger and Rafa.
          Roger Federer fulfils his end of the bargain. Looking good too. No muss...no fuss. Typical Roger zooming through his service game in a minute and change and immediately switching over to put pressure on his opponents serve. Now it is up to Nadal. Karen Khachanov has been showing some signs of standing up to the big boys. But Nadal is as mentally tough as they come. The thing is though...Nadal seems to be showing some residual cracks. Little chinks in his armour at times. Like the last time he played Djokovic at the AO. He looked lost. Does Karen Khachanov has the moxy to pull this one off? Can he effectively attack the Nadal forehand in order to get at the backhand? Khachanov is the prototypical modern tennis player with the extreme forehand grip and complementary two handed backhand. A big booming serve utilised with very little subtle tactics or intent. Is that enough to take Nadal out in the quarters here?
          don_budge
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          • #20
            Originally posted by don_budge View Post

            Roger Federer fulfils his end of the bargain. Looking good too. No muss...no fuss. Typical Roger zooming through his service game in a minute and change and immediately switching over to put pressure on his opponents serve. Now it is up to Nadal. Karen Khachanov has been showing some signs of standing up to the big boys. But Nadal is as mentally tough as they come. The thing is though...Nadal seems to be showing some residual cracks. Little chinks in his armour at times. Like the last time he played Djokovic at thr AO. He looked lost. Does Karen Khachanov has the moxy to pull this one off? Can he effectively attack the Nadal forehand in order to get at the backhand? Khachanov is the prototypical modern tennis player with the extreme forehand grip and complementary two handed backhand. A big booming serve utilised with very little subtle tactics or intent. Is that enough to take Nadal out in the quarters here?
            Thus far, it appears Karen has the game as you outlined to really challenge Nadal. Nadal is at his truest self a brute, he bangs opponents into submission with his forehand. That is pretty much it. Fed, with his unique greatness, his perfect technique on all shots, has endless options, more that any other player ever. He can bang from the back court, or do anything else that is humanly possible on a tennis court. It must be a great feeling being Fed out there.
            Last edited by stroke; 03-15-2019, 04:18 PM.

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            • #21
              Oddsmakers have Fed at about 69% chance of winning vs Nadal. Seems a bit strong, but it could be influenced by Nadal's fitness questions going into this matchup.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by stroke View Post
                It must be a great feeling being Fed out there.
                And if he's feeling good it means he is playing good.

                Head to head records for players in men's professional tennis. View rivalry results and stats for matches on the ATP Tour.


                I think he's feeling great out there and he has five consecutive wins over Rafael Nadal to show for it. Tonight he goes for the six pack. Why not? Last night I saw a vulnerable Nadal. As vulnerable as I have ever seen him. He missed something like nine consecutive first serves in a row yet Khachanov was unable to capitalize on it. If he had he would have gone up a double break in the first set. But as you say, stroke, Federer is a whole another animal. A distinct breed...he is the sole surviving player of his type let alone caliber. He is, or was, an all court player. He is noticeably less capable in his approaches and net play than when he was playing Pete Sampras years ago in his maiden voyage at Wimbledon. 2001?

                It wil be so interesting to see what tactics that Federer goes with tonight against a modern left-handed strong-gripped forehand and two handed backhand. A backcourt player for sure. Extreme backcourt. If he stands that far back to receive serve he may be in for a long night...or even a short one. Roger has been making great use of the forecourt in this tournament...using the short ball and the drop shot to take these one dimensional robots out of their comfy zone. They want to camp out on the baseline...bring 'em to the net I say. Bill Tilden says. One and the same.

                Take a look at the Nadal backswing on his serve. He is manipulating that racquet with his hands and this is a risky thing to do. Better to let the weight of the racquet head dictate the path it takes. He almost pulls a Raonic and takes it back like a frying pan. Put a quesadilla on that racquet face. Speaking of Raonic...he plays the once up and comer who has turned mostly into a flat liner...Dominic Thiem. He owns time 2-0 in their head to head so far and it just might be Milos' time to take this one by the horns and propel himself into the finals. Where I hope Roger will be waiting patiently for him.
                don_budge
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                • #23
                  More drama from Rafael Nadal.
                  don_budge
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                  • #24
                    Nadal just needs to clock back in somewhere in the clay Masters 1000's leading to the FO. At this point in his career with his skill set as it is, that is pretty much where he is at, which looks pretty good to all other players except maybe Fed. Nadal to me has absolutely maximized his potential. He has rode that forehand to unprecedented heights via his FO record. He is no longer at his age able to compete for the title at any Masters or Majors sans clay.





                    Last edited by stroke; 03-16-2019, 03:13 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by stroke View Post
                      Nadal just needs to clock back in somewhere in the clay Masters 1000's leading to the FO. At this point in his career with his skill set as it is, that is pretty much where he is at, which looks pretty good to all other players except maybe Fed. Nadal to me has absolutely maximized his potential. He has rode that forehand to unprecedented heights via his FO record. He is no longer at his age able to compete for the title at any Masters or Majors sans clay.

                      I realize that this skunk has a ton of fans but I saw through his facade a long, long time ago. He will be just fine for the clay court season. He cowered out of the possibility that Roger would beat him a sixth time in a row since the playing field was levelled with the change of Federer's equipment. It's amazing that this character has fooled so many people throughout his career. I don't put anything past him.

                      He will be just fine for the clay court season. Miraculously. This guy is as full of baloney as they come. For him to leave at this stage of a tournament is unforgivable. The ultimate act of a true narcissist.
                      don_budge
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                      • #26
                        And now Nadal has paid the price: he had to give walkover. I hope Federer keeps playing only selected big tournaments. With that strategy, it is similar to playing in the 60s when, with less tournaments, and very few on hardcourts, Gonzalez, Rosewall and others kept playing in their 40s...

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                        • #27
                          When was the last time that two one-handed players played in the final of a ATP 1000 event? klacr?
                          don_budge
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                          • #28
                            Roger's cup, Pat Rafter defeated Richard Krajjieck 1998, I think...

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                            • #29
                              An ATP final with two One-Handed Backhand Players...Dominic Thiem vs. Roger Federer

                              After waking up this morning I decided that there was only one piece of news that I needed to get my day rolling...the results of the finals at Indian Wells between Dominic Thiem and Roger Federer. I must admit that I was mildly surprised that Dominic Thiem won but not altogether disappointed. You see...like Roger Federer my expectations are low now. Really low. That goes for a lot of things. I find that keeping expectations low helps me to relax. It helps to give me peace of mind. So when I saw that Roger had lost...I was genuinely happy for Dominic. He deserves it.




                              I watched the highlights and from what I saw it looked to me that Thiem deserved to win. Federer still playing "great" tennis at the ripe old age of 38 or whatever he is couldn't get the horse in the barn. Thiem was still pounding away at the end in spite of playing a tough three setter against Milos Raonic the day before and Federer seemed to be fading after a day off courtesy of a fading star himself...Rafael Nada. Oops...I forgot the "l" in Nadal. This is a huge in for Thiem on the hardcourts. I know that there is one forum observer who believes that Dominic's success is going to be relegated to clay courts but I don't see it that way. With the one-hander he has some flexibility in his game to adapt. Adapt he did this week.

                              On the way to the finals he took out Gilles Simon currently ranked #27 in a routine straight set match. Then he eliminated the huge serving Ivo Karlovic in another apparently straight set take down. No tie-breaks to boot. Most impressive he didn't have to lift a finger to take out "The Amazing Mr. Monfils" who was a no show after showing signs of brilliance in the early rounds. Even more impressively he eliminated Milos Ranonic in a tight three setter. Setting the stage for this match with Roger...which I didn't see. The match came on at 11.30 PM here in Europe so I elected for a good night's sleep in my further pursuit of peace of mind and the results confirmed to me that I did the correct thing.

                              I was pulling for Federer but Thiem is no disappointment. The fact is this is the first ATP 1000 tournament that was contested by two players with one-handed backhands. It's about damn thiem. For me this trumps a Federer win believe it or not. There's that word again...the "T" word. Duck and cover.
                              don_budge
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                                An ATP final with two One-Handed Backhand Players...Dominic Thiem vs. Roger Federer

                                I was pulling for Federer but Thiem is no disappointment. The fact is this is the first ATP 1000 tournament that was contested by two players with one-handed backhands. It's about damn thiem. For me this trumps a Federer win believe it or not. There's that word again...the "T" word. Duck and cover.
                                Federer is very interesting under pressure. He really played so well in the third set. Thiem had to make two incredible gets and then hit a ball a foot from the baseline to break Federer at 5-5. Thiem does deserve it. Federer is still hanging around and if they were at Wimbledon in a final one has to think that the big occasion and five sets would make things a lot different.

                                It is about time Thiem take his rightful place in the hierarchy: an athletic all-court player with a one handed backhand that is around 6 foot 1. The prototype of great champions in the last 25 years. Yes, I know we have great two handers that have proven to be as good if not better. But I still hold Sampras as the modern model that someone should be trying to emulate.

                                I really hope Thiem can make a breakthrough at one of the majors and win it.

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