Shoulder Over Shoulder: Learning this from Biomechanics

[yemenmocha]

I'm not sure if this is best for this forum or the biomechanics forum. I don't seem to be getting the same degree of shoulder over shoulder rotation that I read about in the biomechanics section on power serve. The article describes it, but doesn't say much about how to teach it to yourself, or how it should feel, etc.

Honestly I think my shoulders are almost on a horizontal plane as I rotate, well there's some angle but not much, so maybe this could explain my lack of power.

For other members, or anyone in general, would like to see if I'm right about this, here are a couple short clips.

1. Very slow motion:

http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p250/mytennis/?action=view&current=Serve2veryslow.flv

2. Somewhat slow:

http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p250/mytennis/?action=view&current=Serve2slow-1.flv

3. Normal speed:

http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p250/mytennis/?action=view&current=Serve3.flv

Thank you,
Aaron

[yemenmocha]

More thoughts on the above. Here are a few still pics from that serve. In the one I've drawn the red line to show where my shoulder line is pointing. When I look at Phillippousis and especially Safin, their line is pointing nearly vertical towards the ground. When you look at my pre-contact and contact point it shows I'm almost upright, whereas Safin and others with the pinpoint stance are back arched to the left and have a shoulder line that is almost vertical. Here are the illustrative pics.





Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

Aaron

[EricMatuszewski]

Your toss is not far enough to the left to make it necessary for a shoulder over shoulder rotation. Shoulder around (and not over, shoulder) rotation is encouraged by tosses to the right.

Your right foot also slides around as you step together much more than either of the players your trying to copy. This encourages more of the shoulder around shoulder rotation as well.

Make sure to read the posts in the Biomechanics section "Tennis Reserchers of the World" and "Hyperextension irrespective of serve type".

Eric

[yemenmocha]

Thank you for your comments.

I'm going to work on this for a few days and shoot a few new videos, but the question I'm going to ask was already asked (and not answered) in one of the other threads you mentioned:

"How do you teach/learn the cartwheeling action?"

I understand the importance of back strengthening and a more leftward toss, but is that all there is? I have a feeling I'm going to collapse to the left when I try something even half as far over to the left as Safin.


-Aaron

[llll]

your raquet drop looks good. are you having trouble with pace or location of your serve? if you look at a video of aggassi he does not get an extreme cartwheel shoulder over shoulder yet i would love to serve like him! my observation is the more arch in your back almost nipples to the sky and left toss promotes a more vertical shoulder over shoulder. any comments?

[airforce1]

hats off

hats off to you putting this up and working to get better. You are looking pretty good in the first 2 frames, but between 2 and the last one, the story is told. In that last frame you have clearly passed your most powerful hitting zone and let the ball start to drop too low. This causes you to be compacted instead of extending all that power into your serve. Part of being compacted like this is getting your hips and shoulders around too far, which leads to pushing the ball more than striking it. Pushing like this leads to a host of problems that make you serve long or hit the net when you try to really hit big, right? Of course this leads to you backing off on your power to try and make a higher % of serves.

Trouble is, Actually that last frame position is probably the one that you are unconciously trying to get to, as it is where you see most club players serve from. Earlier in the motion, you are doing a great job of emulating what you've seen and learned so far. Learning to hit the right spot for that last frame is where the rubber meets the road though. Focus on this in your study so that you can hit the ball with all that force you are creating in the previous frames as those legs and hips drive you up and into the contact point! Sampras and Roddick are great examples in the archives of how that last frame should look. Right now you are building up great power, then just letting it go and reverting to a regular club level technique.
Good luck and keep us updated on how it goes!