Two-handed Backhand Stances & One-handed Slice

[stotty]

lovati4,

I showed Pat's video to Owen and asked him to do the same as the girl. It's a good way to cut to the chase if kids can learn things by watching, many can. Anyway, here are his first attempts. One clip is slomo, the other normal speed.

https://youtu.be/I-_nkr6kfOQ

https://youtu.be/3oouxRcQxsU

The more I coach Owen and others like him, the more I think mastering the open stance is the key to everything. Once the open stance is learnt and learnt well, all the the stances and footwork patterns will come really easily. And, remember, Owen is just talented local player who plays two or three times a week.

That said...

Novak can play great backhands off every stance going, but, when rallying, he will still work hard to get into a closed stance if he can. He must find it the most stable stance for hitting and transferring weight.. I would love to have the opportunity to ask him.

I will check out your post #30 with interest tomorrow.

[johnyandell]

The set up on the outside foot is great. That allows open stance and everything else.

[lovati4]

a. I think Owen did very well especially for the first time (in all attempts). He decelerated well into the open stance and then took a step. His landing was quite balanced and he made good effort to get back to the middle of the baseline fast.
b. On the other hand most of the time he would take a step close to parallel to the baseline. It would be much better to step on a diagonal, 45° or even more. Even with a front foot in the air at point of contact the stance is too closed. It means that hips and even shoulders cannot rotate easily. Without fluid shoulder rotation there is no good extension forward with arms and racquet. This way a player can probably only loop the ball to the other side.
The problem is that even for this kid with good deceleration it might be difficult to take a flying step on a diagonal, inertia makes him move along the baseline. Only a diagonal step would make this motion work.
c. His timing was rather good, may be due to the ability to decelerate smoothly before the step. As we discussed good timing is a very important aspect of this motion. A couple of times Owen had to bend a little, hitting the ball or just after that.
d. Owen's balance at landing was very good and he made good effort to get back to the middle of the baseline in time. But I think that might not be enough in a match play against a good opponent. That is related of the difficulty of landing especially with both hands on the racquet after the big step away from the middle of the baseline.
I hope you do not mind my comments. Owen is a talented kid.
In general I remember just few times when men would choose this motion during the point. On the other hand as High speed archives show Novak Djokovic uses this motion (taking a step (sometimes a relatively small one) on a diagonal, hitting the ball with his front foot in the air, making a kick with his back foot) 60-70% of the time when returning a serve with a backhand. Anything Novak does on return of serve is worth looking at because he returns better than anyone else.
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...4%20250fps.mp4
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...r%20500fps.mp4
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...1%20120fps.mp4

[stotty]

a. I think Owen did very well especially for the first time (in all attempts). He decelerated well into the open stance and then took a step. His landing was quite balanced and he made good effort to get back to the middle of the baseline fast.
b. On the other hand most of the time he would take a step close to parallel to the baseline. It would be much better to step on a diagonal, 45° or even more. Even with a front foot in the air at point of contact the stance is too closed. It means that hips and even shoulders cannot rotate easily. Without fluid shoulder rotation there is no good extension forward with arms and racquet. This way a player can probably only loop the ball to the other side.
The problem is that even for this kid with good deceleration it might be difficult to take a flying step on a diagonal, inertia makes him move along the baseline. Only a diagonal step would make this motion work.
c. His timing was rather good, may be due to the ability to decelerate smoothly before the step. As we discussed good timing is a very important aspect of this motion. A couple of times Owen had to bend a little, hitting the ball or just after that.
d. Owen's balance at landing was very good and he made good effort to get back to the middle of the baseline in time. But I think that might not be enough in a match play against a good opponent. That is related of the difficulty of landing especially with both hands on the racquet after the big step away from the middle of the baseline.
I hope you do not mind my comments. Owen is a talented kid.

Of course I don't mind your comments! All constructive and well meaning comments are welcome. Yesterday we just practised the move as per Pat's video. In Pat's video the girl cuts the ball off at a diagonal much like you say, and, yes, it's highly desirable to do so. Some of my feeds didn't permit it because they were fed deep and he was under pressure to get to there. He often didn't have time to cut the ball off at a diagonal. I still think the move is effective (sometimes you don't have a choice) even though recovery is impaired. I think with all stances it's when to use which one that becomes important.

But it's practice the move first, then perfect when to to do and off what ball later....maybe even next week.

[arturohernandez]

Great work! I was often confused into thinking that the front foot was important on all strokes. But lately the importance of the back foot has come into my mind. This shows us how important it is to track the ball with the back foot.

I have my daughter also hit one handed backhands with an open stance. It helps her with timing and then eventually she will simply adjust and take the step after she has aligned herself to the ball.

[stotty]

Great work! I was often confused into thinking that the front foot was important on all strokes. But lately the importance of the back foot has come into my mind. This shows us how important it is to track the ball with the back foot.

I have my daughter also hit one handed backhands with an open stance. It helps her with timing and then eventually she will simply adjust and take the step after she has aligned herself to the ball.

Be a little careful in teaching the open stance to a one-handed player. It's a more difficult than the two-handed version. I have a one-handed backhand and have never bothered with an open stance as it was unnecessary at my level of play. Sometimes on return of serve I did it, but only rarely. Stepping in with a one-hander is way easier. The two-hander is a different kettle of fish.

The pro's do it of course but by and large they seem to prefer closing the stance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J53OSJVpziw

[lovati4]

In Spain tennis coaches often use variations of a classical exercise known as 4 Vs. This exercise was created by Pato Alvarez and then became one of the basic exercises in many Spanish tennis academies.
Look at Emilio Sanchez teaching kids how to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAJFdzPprEQ

I say that because of stances this naturally leads to on a backhand side. When for example a player moves (shuffles) along backhand V forward to the ball he (she) naturally hits it in a slightly closed (or a neutral) stance. Moving back (receiving a ball) he (she) chooses semi open stance.
I like this exercise a lot. This movement pattern helps players keep great balance and lets then naturally find good position for the outside foot.
Spanish players also learn to move (flow) forward and back, receiving a ball in the semi open stance (on the outside foot). They practice like that on the forehand and backhand side with a one-handed or two-handed backhand. In many videos Emilio Sanchez explained philosophy of this exercise and how to do it with players of different age and level of play.

[stotty]

Nice drills. We use the same drills and others like them over here in the UK. The Spanish are very keen on hand fed basket drills like the one in the clip.

Using the right movement patterns and stances are well worth installing in players who play a lot and have regular coaching. I think for a lot of coaches who don't have an Academy set up like Emilio and only see our players once a week, it's more difficult.