Forum: December 18th...the Andre Rublev Forehand

[don_budge]

The Book is Bill Tilden..."The Foundations of Tennis"

Aesthetically Tsitsipas seems to more fluid. He appears to have a more natural athletic rhythm to his game and this is apparent at any speed. Rublev's input (energy, effort or however it may be described) seems more forced. It's something that's apparent in all sports and at all levels especially when a naturally athletic individual stands in comparison to someone who is less athletically inclined but who has been efficiently trained. Pete Rose, for example, had a great swing. A hall of fame swing but it wasn't as rhythmically smooth as Ken Griffey Jr's. Rublev, quite often, seems to be TRYING to hit the ball and hit it hard. Tsitsipas conversely seems to be responding to the oncoming ball more intuitively while achieving the same result. There seems to be a kinetic response that is more natural and fluid and has fewer disconnects. Not sure if it affects the outcome but it surely affects the presentation. Beauty and the Beast.

I think you are on to something. See the easiest on the eye ever, Fed.

Very talented players always make the game look easy, relaxed, and muscle-free. I am not sure why that is or even if anyone can explain it.

Three comments that made the start of a separate thread necessary from my perspective. I love the comments from 10stchr (distant relative of the highly esteemed 10splayer?) about the "Big Red Machine" of the mid-seventies down there in Cincinnati, Ohio. Man...I remember being a student at Ohio University and watching a bit of baseball in the Beta Frat House. The Reds were going around and around the bases. Sparky Anderson at the helm. Playing Harry Hopman. To compare the work of Stefanos Tsitsipas and Andre Rubles is just perfect spot on. The difference? For starters...Tsitsipas uses a one handed backhand.

Mr. stroke validates the first comment with a reference to the only player playing modern tennis that is anywhere close to have roots in classic tennis. Fluidity? What exactly is it?

Stotty nearly aces it with his comment...a parallel universe with the writings of the timeless Bill Tilden. Nobody ever captured the essence of the game any better than Tilden.

From Chapter 5 entitled "Footwork and Weight Control" he makes these comments which should be a "Golden Rule" for any teacher that teaches sound fundamentals. Once you have the student up and running...he needs to hear these prophetic words.

"One universal feature is to be found in all great players. They never seem to be hurried. Watching such stars as Donald Budge, Fred Perry, Bobby Riggs and Jack Kramer, one gains the impression that they glide or float to the ball. They never rush at it and snap at it. Lesser stars and mediocre players always seem to be going at top speed, but they are often late for the shot. Their racquet work is crowded and hurried. The reason lies in the method of starting footwork. The champion starts with the correct off and spaces his run so he arrives with the correct foot in position to hit, whereas the average player just runs at the ball to get there any way, without care in preparation on the way over. All footwork should be used to bring the player to the ball with his weight under such good control that he can use it as he wishes when he hits the ball. Whenever it is possible to reach a shot without running, walk to it and keep the body perfectly poised. When the shot requires you to run, do your fast running first so that you can slow up and gain control of your weight and body position before you hit the ball. Never jump or leave the ground with both feet or one foot if you can keep both placed firmly on the ground. The more solidly you are set, the easier it is to hit the ball solidly…The only effect of leaving the ground with the feet on drives is to dissipate most of the power of the shot because in the jump the weight goes off the line of the stroke, and is not transmitted through the racquet head to reach the ball."

From Chapter 2 in a section entitled "Preparation for a Shot".

"The secret of preparation for a shot lies in taking the racquet head back the moment you see where the shot is coming and holding it in readiness until the time comes to hit the ball. Watch such players as Perry, Riggs, Budge, Kramer and Parker and see how they take the racquet back as hey move to the ball. The effect is as if the racquet head pulled them into position, instead of their taking position and then moving the racquet."

These are precisely the qualities that make a player such as Roger Federer in the twilight of his career still the "easiest on the eyes".

I can just hear the heads exploding about the sacrilegious words he writes about not jumping with the swing. The jumping might be a bit less of a gamble when the player is using a huge graphite missile launcher compared to the wooden sticks of yesterday...but still they hold a truth to them when you take into account of many slow motion or still shots of todays players hitting the ball out towards the frame. With a wooden stick that would be a complete whiff...todays weapons of mass dumbed down tennis allow for such gambles...to an extent. But still the fundamental reasoning of Bill Tilden still applies. No matter how much noise the "other side" generates.

[stotty]

Nice post. Great to involve other forum members in such a nice way.

Me, I like Tilden's books but cannot for the life of me mange to get others to read them. No one seems interested in delving into the past. For some it's just too long ago and they feel the past can't have anything to offer. I found it a revelation to read Tilden had stumbled on the 'heavy ball' in 1925 literally donkeys years before the term heavy ball was even coined. That's the thing with Bill. He was ahead of his time in every sense of the game.

[don_budge]

Nice post. Great to involve other forum members in such a nice way.

Me, I like Tilden's books but cannot for the life of me mange to get others to read them. No one seems interested in delving into the past. For some it's just too long ago and they feel the past can't have anything to offer. I found it a revelation to read Tilden had stumbled on the 'heavy ball' in 1925 literally donkeys years before the term heavy ball was even coined. That's the thing with Bill. He was ahead of his time in every sense of the game.

Yes...it's always nice to have these conversations with other forum participants. I find most of the comments very thought provoking and it is much more entertaining for forum readers to watch the back and forth. You spin to me...I spin to you. It's the nature of the game. It resembles tennis. You ask your opponent the question and he gives you their reply. Then it is all up to you. That's how I play it on the forum. Sometimes you must go it alone...thus the golf analogies.

It is interesting that nobody is interested in what Tilden had to say. Nearly everything you need to know about the fundamentals can be found in these two books. He wrote other books and I have possession of several. In this case I constructed a whole lesson with my student around the quotes that I posted. I sent him an email before the lesson. For two hours on the court I hammered it into him. He's a neophyte and at some point it was sort of lost on him. But I guarantee you that 25 years from now he is going to remember his coach hammering the point home to him and I really hope that long before then he will be an accomplished player. If he listens to me...it's a lock.

He surprised me yesterday. He told me that he booked a court for an hour so that he could practice his serve and do the "Spider" conditioning drill on his own. This is another step in the right direction...getting the student to take responsibility for their own destiny. I am taking a page out of hockeyscout's book here and over emphasising the conditioning and agility. This kid is hunting kids who have been playing years longer than he. He needs the stealth and endurance of a wolf. Not to mention the cunning. He must be that wolf on the tennis court. He'll be nipping at their heels sooner rather than later. Sort of like Richard Gonzalez with the Don Budge backhand. That's how I roll.

[stotty]

This is another step in the right direction...getting the student to take responsibility for their own destiny.

Never a truer word spoken. I always encourage students to do the same and not to rely on coaching as the sole answer to everything. Take responsibility for yourself...discover the game...learn from peers. Never underestimate the value of self-development and discovering the game for yourself is what I tell students.

What I like most about Roger is that he has a coaching team but they are not his umbilical cord. You can see once he walks on court he is out there playing the match on his own. No looking to the bench every other point asking for his dummy. Roger is a little bit old school in that regard.

You introduced me to Tilden's books some years ago. Sadly I have been unable to pass the baton on to other students of the game. No one is interested. What a shame....folk don't know what they are missing.

I have a good student at the moment. I've reached him. He's bought into my philosophy and my knowledge. As Dennis Lloyd once taught me, ''the trick is to get these kids hanging onto your every word and eating out of the palm of your hand''. Dennis knew a thing or two and had a charisma that drew people in...kind of like hypnotherapy. He was clever like that and could really hold someones attention.

[bottle]

Yes...it's always nice to have these conversations with other forum participants. I find most of the comments very thought provoking and it is much more entertaining for forum readers to watch the back and forth. You spin to me...I spin to you. It's the nature of the game. It resembles tennis. You ask your opponent the question and he gives you their reply. Then it is all up to you. That's how I play it on the forum.

Sure. We all should have been playwrights instead of fiction writers. We would have gone farther, I believe. Maybe you can still be the American Strindberg. Known for his darkness and is very good on the subject of seductions. (Start with "Miss Julie." My friend Malin actually played her on a big stage although I can't remember whether it was in Stockholm or Atlanta.)

Now I remember. Stockholm before I met her on the student ship returning her to Sweden. She played in "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" at Oglethorpe College in Atlanta. And later did questions and answers on the front page of The Atlanta Constitution as part of a regular column. Was Nina Khruschev's interpreter in Stockholm. Sold out a house full of her paintings in Saudi Arabia where earlier her dog had been shot. Made enough money from those paintings to buy her parents the house in northern Sweden they always wanted. Published an anonymously written tell-all novel concealed from her husband about the Riyadh expat community-- in serial form-- in one of the big Swedish women's magazines. A very talented and beautiful woman with a life so convoluted that it is beyond description.

Once she looked me up through old schools and showed up in Eastport, Maine. We never married but were engaged a couple of times. (She agreed to that when I visited her in England shortly before one of her two adopted daughters fell off of a tall cliff on a Greek Island where I think Malin still owns a house.)

[don_budge]

Never a truer word spoken. I always encourage students to do the same and not to rely on coaching as the sole answer to everything. Take responsibility for yourself...discover the game...learn from peers. Never underestimate the value of self-development and discovering the game for yourself is what I tell students.

What I like most about Roger is that he has a coaching team but they are not his umbilical cord. You can see once he walks on court he is out there playing the match on his own. No looking to the bench every other point asking for his dummy. Roger is a little bit old school in that regard.

You introduced me to Tilden's books some years ago. Sadly I have been unable to pass the baton on to other students of the game. No one is interested. What a shame....folk don't know what they are missing.

I have a good student at the moment. I've reached him. He's bought into my philosophy and my knowledge. As Dennis Lloyd once taught me, ''the trick is to get these kids hanging onto your every word and eating out of the palm of your hand''. Dennis knew a thing or two and had a charisma that drew people in...kind of like hypnotherapy. He was clever like that and could really hold someones attention.

Good intentions my friend. Great intentions. I think of it as "capturing their imagination". Playing the matchmaker in the hopes of igniting a great love affair. Svengali...yes. Whatever it takes...by hook or by crook. The conduit somehow. I love my position now with tennis...with life. The freedom that goes with the oxygen in the forest. This one student for two hours every Saturday and I give him homework. Interval training. Figure eights. Oxygen.

I introduced you to Tilden books? That's enough for me. If nobody else listens...it is their loss. What do I care? But I introduced Tilden to you? It's priceless my friend...my brother in the UK. Well I'm headed out the door now. Puntzie and York are waiting outside my office. They take a number...it is their turn now. My turn. WE will head out into the woods and walk as long as we want. The strength of the wolf is the pack...the strength of the pack is the wolf. Never forget that my son. Never forget.

The tennis player is a fluid creation. The coach can talk himself blue in the face but if he cannot capture the student's imagination. Well you know the score. I know that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. It's important too that they drink. Water is a fluid too isn't it? What was I saying about fluidity? Oh yes...now I remember. It was something that Tilden wrote.

"One universal feature is to be found in all great players. They never seem to be hurried. Watching such stars as Donald Budge, Fred Perry, Bobby Riggs and Jack Kramer, one gains the impression that they glide or float to the ball. They never rush at it and snap at it. Lesser stars and mediocre players always seem to be going at top speed, but they are often late for the shot. Their racquet work is crowded and hurried. The reason lies in the method of starting footwork. The champion starts with the correct off and spaces his run so he arrives with the correct foot in position to hit, whereas the average player just runs at the ball to get there any way, without care in preparation on the way over. All footwork should be used to bring the player to the ball with his weight under such good control that he can use it as he wishes when he hits the ball. Whenever it is possible to reach a shot without running, walk to it and keep the body perfectly poised. When the shot requires you to run, do your fast running first so that you can slow up and gain control of your weight and body position before you hit the ball. Never jump or leave the ground with both feet or one foot if you can keep both placed firmly on the ground. The more solidly you are set, the easier it is to hit the ball solidly…The only effect of leaving the ground with the feet on drives is to dissipate most of the power of the shot because in the jump the weight goes off the line of the stroke, and is not transmitted through the racquet head to reach the ball."


Donald Budge. Fred Perry. Bobby Riggs. Jack Kramer. Yeah...they were from the old days. What could they possibly know? What could I possibly know? Hmmmm....???

[doctorhl]

Tilden’ s quote brought to my mind images of watching Rudy Hartono in the Thomas Cup in London in the 70’s. Power, speed and touch undergirded by unbelievable graceful footwork on the badminton court. There are footwork parallels between the two sports.

[doctorhl]

It would have been interesting to capture and hear the difference in foot noise between the old school and new school tennis players.

[don_budge]

William Tilden is the book...Roger Federer is the "Living Proof"

"One universal feature is to be found in all great players. They never seem to be hurried. Watching such stars as Donald Budge, Fred Perry, Bobby Riggs and Jack Kramer, one gains the impression that they glide or float to the ball. They never rush at it and snap at it. Lesser stars and mediocre players always seem to be going at top speed, but they are often late for the shot. Their racquet work is crowded and hurried. The reason lies in the method of starting footwork. The champion starts with the correct off and spaces his run so he arrives with the correct foot in position to hit, whereas the average player just runs at the ball to get there any way, without care in preparation on the way over. All footwork should be used to bring the player to the ball with his weight under such good control that he can use it as he wishes when he hits the ball. Whenever it is possible to reach a shot without running, walk to it and keep the body perfectly poised. When the shot requires you to run, do your fast running first so that you can slow up and gain control of your weight and body position before you hit the ball. Never jump or leave the ground with both feet or one foot if you can keep both placed firmly on the ground. The more solidly you are set, the easier it is to hit the ball solidly…The only effect of leaving the ground with the feet on drives is to dissipate most of the power of the shot because in the jump the weight goes off the line of the stroke, and is not transmitted through the racquet head to reach the ball."

Connect the dots from William Tilden's "How to Play Better Tennis-a complete guide to technique and tactics" and "Match Play and the Spin of the Ball"...all the way to you know who. Roger Federer. Here Federer demonstrates the above quote from Tilden.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/music_videos/federer_fh_not_gone/index.html