Technical Flaws in Pro Two Handers: Jack Sock

[jeffreycounts]

Would love to get your thoughts on my latest article "Technical Flaws in Pro Two Handers: Jack Sock"

[lovati4]

The key problem in Milos Raonic, Jack Sock motion seems to be that their bodies rotate too fast for their hands. In a good point of contact as John says body should be approximately at 45° to the baseline. So either their torso rotates incorrectly or their hands lag behind.
a) Body rotation - backward
Milosh Raonic seems to have relatively good body turn at the end of the backswing. Though I am not completely sure. But not as good as Novak Djokovic. His shoulders turn about 20-30° past perpendicular to the baseline at the end of the backswing. Hands travel faster than torso. So it is easier for them to get to the contact point in time.
b) Shoulder stretch
The speed of hands depends on the initial acceleration. Hands begin to accelerate due to the stretch on the front shoulder. When players hands are far away from the body that stretch is weaker. Because of that hands cannot get to the point of contact in time, even though they are closer to that point.

[drsous]

Great stuff. Totally agree with you. Very sad that he has come this far and either he or his team don’t want to think about it. Not a champion attitude. Nadal Fed and Novak have all made changes to their serve and tactics to continue to become better. If Sock is serious about being the best he can be, he should read this and try it.

[arturohernandez]

The saddest part is that NONE of these problems are apparent in his one hander today with very little practice. Why someone decided to trade a decent shot for a bad shot is unfortunate. I don’t have a crystal ball but my guess is that he would have a much better one handed backhand and it would have taken a lot less work. Maybe Sock is a natural one hander who was born on the wrong continent.

[bman]

So why is it desirable to have space between the hands and the body on the forehand but not the backhand? Seems that in theory you should have the same problem of being too open at contact.

[johnyandell]

Good question--you don't want too much space on the forehand which is also inside out at the start of the swing. But I think the real reason is the role of the bottom arm.

[bottle]

b) Shoulder stretch
The speed of hands depends on the initial acceleration. Hands begin to accelerate due to the stretch on the front shoulder. When players hands are far away from the body that stretch is weaker. Because of that hands cannot get to the point of contact in time, even though they are closer to that point.

Speaking only as/for one player with a one hander at that, I think this advice is still true and valuable to me, so thanks.

[lovati4]

For a forehand in comparison to a backhand player's torso at contact is usually parallel to the baseline. So while torso rotates, right hand has more time to accelerate and get to the point of contact in time. This may explain why players have a very good forehand placing their racquet head at 5, 4:30 or even 4 o’clock at the end of the backswing.

[klacr]

Another great article on technical flaws in the pro game. No one can deny that Sock's forehand is a ballistic weapon. But its also quite obvious for a coach to see in real time there is something not quite right about the backhand. When it gets slowed down the message is crystal clear. I really hope Jack Sock or someone in his camp is a subscriber to this site and sees this and can talk some sense into him. Or maybe he's happy winning a round in singles and going deep in the doubles draw with various partners.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

The saddest part is that NONE of these problems are apparent in his one hander today with very little practice. Why someone decided to trade a decent shot for a bad shot is unfortunate. I don’t have a crystal ball but my guess is that he would have a much better one handed backhand and it would have taken a lot less work. Maybe Sock is a natural one hander who was born on the wrong continent.

I still don't know what to make of your comment about "beating a dead horse". But it doesn't matter either. I remember when I first started writing on the forum and nobody had had any time to get used to me. To prepare. I was writing about "the coaching having been hijacked". I have the feeling that readers didn't quite know what to make of me. But this is what has happened. The coaching was hijacked and this is the result. The professional tour has become merely an extension of the junior game. Intuitively I knew it when I began writing here and now it is more evident than ever.

Stotty writes about research that says that the five and seven year olds introduced to the sport will be gone by the time they are nine. No surprise. Kids that young don't make up their own minds about much of anything. Perhaps about what they put in their mouths. But any child that starts so young is probably going to start with a two hand backhand and to separate a child from a two hand backhand is like pulling teeth. The insecurity is understandable. How do you wean them? How do you explain that in order to go two steps forwards you must go one step back? It doesn't make much sense to the fragile eggshell mind. The coaching has been hijacked. Coaches either don't have the balls to tell the kid to drop the other hand or they don't know anything about the one hand game either. What am I saying...it is both at this late point in the game. Coaches are just as clueless about approach and volley as the student. A new low.

So Jack Sock, Milos Raonic and all of the rest are on a road that should have been less traveled. Instead they look like robotic zombies. Chasing and chasing the ball from behind the baseline. Chasing their tails...like the braintrust of tennis.

I don't have a crystal ball and I don't need one. The forum can attest to that. From day one I came on here swinging and I haven't let up. Not one iota.

It's great that John is posting these miserable excuses for backhands. All conceived in the players infancy and by the time they were strong enough to change they were already hooked on their own stupid success as a junior. Lord knows the kid doesn't want to jeopardise that blow to the ego. Coaches not having the either the wherewithal to make the change or they lack the intestinal fortitude to risk losing one of their babies.

Thank you Mr. Yandell for pointing out the obvious. Sometimes I suspect that you are some sort of closet classic enthusiast as well as a modern game Svengali.

[arturohernandez]

I don't have a crystal ball and I don't need one. The forum can attest to that. From day one I came on here swinging and I haven't let up. Not one iota.

It's great that John is posting these miserable excuses for backhands. All conceived in the players infancy and by the time they were strong enough to change they were already hooked on their own stupid success as a junior. Lord knows the kid doesn't want to jeopardise that blow to the ego. Coaches not having the either the wherewithal to make the change or they lack the intestinal fortitude to risk losing one of their babies.

Thank you Mr. Yandell for pointing out the obvious. Sometimes I suspect that you are some sort of closet classic enthusiast as well as a modern game Svengali.

The interesting thing is that looking at his one handed backhand makes it clear that he does not open up too early. His spacing is better and it looks like a decent stroke.

I really wish that coaches here would teach every player a one handed topspin backhand. Even if they just experimented with it in every lesson. Just try it out and see if it works. Play a few weeks with it to see how it goes.

A few weeks or even months would not be too great a cost. And if the child likes it then stick with it.

Someone mentioned in another thread that Americans experiment more.

In the case of the obsession with hitting only two handed backhands, I would say that Americans don't experiment enough.

With more freedom, I cannot imagine that the US could not have at least one player with as good a one handed backhand as a Bulgarian.

Maybe not the athleticism or the record, but at least as good a one hander.

I am afraid that the one step forward, two steps back applies to the whole country right now with regard to the backhand.

I am with you on this one @don_budge.

If John is a closet classic enthusiast, I am (minus the closet part) too.

I'll leave the modern Svengali part to him.

[stotty]

Which leads me to what happens next. In the coming months in the Teaching Systems section, I plan to present a comprehensive analysis of the range of viable technical options and how to teach them. I'm excited about that. Stay Tuned!

I am excited about that too. Especially the 'viable technical options and how to teach them' part.

I feel these articles on 'flawed pro' two handers are really useful to coaches. As John suggests, the two-hander is a complex shot because of the multiple configurations a player can have. Sometimes it's tough for coaches to work out what is going within the mechanics of the two-hander shot, sometimes I look at a awkward two-hander but, from a biomechanics standpoint, cannot get to the bottom of it.

So, yes, I'll be staying tuned.

[don_budge]

When the Herd is headed off the Cliff...watch for don_budge to head in precisely the opposite direction!

In the case of the obsession with hitting only two handed backhands, I would say that Americans don't experiment enough.

With more freedom, I cannot imagine that the US could not have at least one player with as good a one handed backhand as a Bulgarian.

Maybe not the athleticism or the record, but at least as good a one hander.

I am afraid that the one step forward, two steps back applies to the whole country right now with regard to the backhand.

I am with you on this one @don_budge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnukPahs6A4

Now I am no longer in the position where a club or any federation can even hint at what my teaching should be. This couldn't please me more. Give me freedom...or give me death. Being in the grips of the Swedish Tennis Federation is like being among the living dead. Never in my life have I ever seen a bigger, stupider, ignorant bunch of fools in my entire life.

They may as well make a stupid law in Sweden that it is unlawful to teach the one handed backhand. Typical...it can go along with the most destructive political agenda on the face of the earth. The Prime Minister claims that they have the first feminist government and he proclaims that he is a feminist. This place is going to go straight to hell in a hand basket with the suicidal policies that they are deciding upon and the ones that are being dictated to them by the European Union. God Bless Brexit.

But now I am free. At least until tomorrow when the thought police come to get me for the statement above. I will probably be arrested on the tennis court teaching my only student now and he is playing the one handed backhand game...ala "The Only Living Proof" left in the sport. Roger Federer.

I should post some video of this kid. Sixteen years old and we have been meeting once a week on Saturdays. He trains a couple of times with the local club here and he has already been promoted to the better players. The coach at this local club reluctantly said to Edvin that if he plays his best tennis he will be able to practice with his "million dollar babies". Wake up Captain Nimrod...my boy is hunting every single one of them. He will be snapping at their heels in less than a year. If the coach had even an ounce of sense in his head he would try and hire me tomorrow. But here, even more so than anywhere, the coaches are so insecure and territorial. Zombies who take their only initiative from the STA.

Every single student that I take from now on will eventually play the one handed game...including females should I ever have any. They might start with two hands but the goal will always be to drop the other hand. Unless of course they show some unusual proclivity to produce great two handed backhands. My student(s) will enjoy tennis for a lifetime and play a sport where they can constantly evolve and improve. Not chase their tails like a rat on a wheel.

You see how I am and what a bit of freedom does to me. I am free. Bill Tilden rarely mentions a two handed stroke unless he does to clarify something as unorthodox. I won't go so far as two handed is not a legitimate choice for anyone. Just not for me.