Interactive Forum October 2018: Naomi Osaka Forehand

[jeffreycounts]

She was definitely hitting Serena off the court with that forehand. It's not often you see someone out hitting Serena, but Osaka did. Another player who has almost no extension is Sloane Stephens. Not sure what that means, if anything.

[stotty]

She was definitely hitting Serena off the court with that forehand. It's not often you see someone out hitting Serena, but Osaka did. Another player who has almost no extension is Sloane Stephens. Not sure what that means, if anything.

Monfils is another one with less than ideal extension, so it happens in the men's game too on occasion. While it doesn't seem to handicap some players in any way whatsoever you just wonder if their forehands might have been a tad better with better extension.

The trouble with coaching is someone always comes along and proves a so-called 'commonality' to not be an imperative we perhaps thought.

[seano]

Donald Young is another who has/had way too much windshield wiper and not enough extension. He owned the juniors but when he joined the pros at a young age, his balls weren't heavy enough and couldn't keep up. He has hung around for a long time and currently has a ranking of 264. Tough way to make a living.

[bottle]

Fingers too bunched together. As a person always in the process of changing everything (which everybody but me thinks is an awful idea), I tell you I have enjoyed tennis more ever since I got the forefinger up the racket and put an emphasis on the ring formed by interlocking middle finger and thumb. All the other fingers including the spread index finger can be relaxed to the point of not even being on the handle for a flattened out shot with wrist fully laid back to provide natural as opposed to contrived firmness. But then when you want to wipe you can use the same ring to provide one purchase place on the racket with end of forefinger (slightly curled) to provide the other. The two purchase points can twirl the racket like a baton and you don't strain and get tired and maybe even hit the ball more cleanly. (Well, sometimes-- am trying to be honest here.)

[bottle]

Next thing to notice, in the view of one person, me. The extent to which Naomi Osaka does not straighten her knees in these forehands. Tom Okker in his famous forehand article in MASTERING YOUR TENNIS STROKES opines that lousy players straighten their legs too much thus depriving the stroke of easy power that comes when both knees press toward the net. Well, the legs straighten some. The body elongates too (Alexander effect?). But degree of something is what I point to here.

[tennishans 50]

It is interesting to see how women hit different than men. Strength and power make a difference and it seems that women have to get the racket back farther in order to generate power. Or maybe they have a bit more time. In any case, I think this is a very nice forehand for the baseline big basher era. However, my guess is that it is not as amenable to playing inside the court and to the type of adaptability needed to handle an approach shot with all types of different balls.

So it seems that she is able to generate plenty of power but that it requires her larger frame to do so.

Obviously, it is a great weapon but I really wonder how it would hold up if she were pressed with either slice or with someone making her hit the ball somewhere else besides the baseline.

Problem is there aren't too many women who make players do that regularly these days.

The longer backswing the less time you have before impact. You can get more power by flipping the hand, as you can see with the ATP-forehand. The racket head must be above the hand to get the flip motion, which is the third power source. Her racket is on the forehand side all the time, so that is different from the WTA-forehand. It is awesome to see women using the ATP-style forehand. That is the way to go. Even kids at 8 can do that, it is just a question that the coaches are willing to update the technique development on the women side.

[jmtennis]

Agree could have a little more extension on follow through and keep her backswing on the hitting side. she takes her racquet behind her back what can we say she won the open

[alexander30]

taking the racket behind the shoulder line i guess makes the women feel it gives them more power but hard to be consistent as the swing is more circular so less spin and extension will be a problem Atp forehand has to be the way to go not the wta.,Also maintaining the crosscourt trade is more difficult.

[stotty]

These days, when working with girls, I tend to work on the premise of reducing their backswings. I often won't get a true ATP forehand out of them, or anything close, but, generally, girls are more consistent once their backswing is reduced, preferably to the point where it stays on the hitting side of the body.

Aside from the topspin element, WTA forehands are far less consistent than ATP forehands. Reducing backswings at least goes some way to resolving that issue.

[johnyandell]

Agreed very much.

[alexander30]

Donald Young is another who has/had way too much windshield wiper and not enough extension. He owned the juniors but when he joined the pros at a young age, his balls weren't heavy enough and couldn't keep up. He has hung around for a long time and currently has a ranking of 264. Tough way to make a living.

young used to take racket back behind him too much almost like a wta fhand and he struggled with extension and hitting that heavy ball needed on the mens tour.unbelievbly bad considering the level he played at.such a technical error..

[alexander30]

Monfils is another one with less than ideal extension, so it happens in the men's game too on occasion. While it doesn't seem to handicap some players in any way whatsoever you just wonder if their forehands might have been a tad better with better extension.

The trouble with coaching is someone always comes along and proves a so-called 'commonality' to not be an imperative we perhaps thought.

hes such a great athlete he can carry it off.

[stotty]

hes such a great athlete he can carry it off.

To me, when I see this kind of thing in a very good player like Monfils, I just can't help thinking if his forehand might not have been even better with better extension.

When I watch Serena play, I sometimes wonder - more than with any other player - how amazing she might have been with male technique. She has the strength and ability to have adopted those technical advantages had she been taught them at a young age. Well, it's an interesting thought, isn't it?

[jimlosaltos]

The lack of extension is surprising but she still produces some serious power.
Women will hit a naturally flatter ball and so the mph is not that far off of the men but the RPMs is where the gap is.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

To follow up on Kyle's post, which I just read, per this 2017 article in NYT with data from the Australian Open the fastest average forehand speed was a tie between Madison Keys and Tomas Berdych. Li Na and Madison Keys had higher average backhand velocity than any of the ATP players. I believe John Y had written a long while back that the average RPMs are about 1k lower on the WTA, but that's from memory.

[klacr]

To follow up on Kyle's post, which I just read, per this 2017 article in NYT with data from the Australian Open the fastest average forehand speed was a tie between Madison Keys and Tomas Berdych. Li Na and Madison Keys had higher average backhand velocity than any of the ATP players. I believe John Y had written a long while back that the average RPMs are about 1k lower on the WTA, but that's from memory.

thanks Jim.
Yeah, I remember reading that as well. When you see it in person its obvious the women are still crushing some huge shots, but as it goes fast through the air it looks as if its a ping pong ball whereas the men produce the power/spin combo which makes it look and feel like a bowling ball off your racquet.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton