Bill Simons on Serena

[johnyandell]

http://www.insidetennis.com/2018/09/the-serena-fallout/

Bill Simons is a friend and one of the most astute tennis writers there is. Here is his take on the Serena controversy. I happen to agree. But gentlemen this is a test. Those of you who agree or disagree will refrain from name calling accusations and the rest.

[bottle]

Why should everybody feel afraid to touch this? I am very sorry to have to be the first to comment since I am supposed to be tainted goods. But this article, unlike so many of the others that the benighted have recently praised, has the ring of great truth and social resonance to it. I now feel compelled to state that all the talk about "false narratives" to which we are subjected is an attempt to obfuscate the uncomfortable truth here.

[gzhpcu]

Serena grew up playing in a club that had racial prejudices against afro americsns. I remember as a youngster playing tennis with my Dad on public courts in Cheviiot hills once when a young Afro american came wanting to play. He was ignored. My dad seeing this, told me to go ahead and ask him if he wanted to play with me. Which I did and he timidly said thanks.

Serena certainly suffered much worse. Her sister was killed some years ago. She has been jeered because of her body weight.

This all adds up. I can understand the chip on her shoulder.

The author of the article wrote an intelligent commentary.

[johnyandell]

Phil,
Agreed.

[stotty]

Serena certainly suffered much worse. Her sister was killed some years ago. She has been jeered because of her body weight.

This all adds up. I can understand the chip on her shoulder.

The author of the article wrote an intelligent commentary.

It's kind of like a vicious circle for Serena as it is for all 'chip on the shoulder' characters. She has developed characteristics that have made her disliked so gets a bad press, she then responds to that these same characteristics which attracts controversy and so she becomes disliked even more.

What was most poignant about the article is that people forget/refuse to highlight what Serena has achieved against the odds. Coming back to tour tennis after giving birth and reaching two slam finals is inspiring just in itself. I wonder how many of her critics are willing to accept the difficulty involved in doing that.

But Serena is caught in a vicious circle brought about by her own self and by the media looking to exploit her at every opportunity.

[bottle]

It's kind of like a vicious circle for Serena as it is for all 'chip on the shoulder' characters. She has developed characteristics that have made her disliked so gets a bad press, she then responds to that these same characteristics which attracts controversy and so she becomes disliked even more.

What was most poignant about the article is that people forget/refuse to highlight what Serena has achieved against the odds. Coming back to tour tennis after giving birth and reaching two slam finals is inspiring just in itself. I wonder how many of her critics are willing to accept the difficulty involved in doing that.

But Serena is caught in a vicious circle brought about by her own self and by the media looking to exploit her at every opportunity.

I don't know. She may succeed in transcending it all. She certainly is more interesting than other players when she speaks.

[johnyandell]

I still think there was no reason for that first coaching penalty--and that was the start of the whole thing. How many coaching violations has Ramos given out?

[arturohernandez]

I agree. Why give a coaching penalty in a final? It could easily have been a soft warning. Ramos claims that he does not do "a la carte" umpiring. Clearly he is a stickler for the rules.

I mean Serena never even asks for legal coaching.

Anyone accusing her of illegal coaching would definitely be perceived as being overly strict.

Of course, Serena could have just toned it down as well.

It's a shame that we have spent so much time talking about Serena.

Osaka played a great match and tournament.

Now if only a 20 year old man could pull off the same feat.

[stotty]

I still think there was no reason for that first coaching penalty--and that was the start of the whole thing. How many coaching violations has Ramos given out?

I think Ramos called it as he saw it. He wasn't to know Serena wasn't looking when he saw Patrick Mouratoglou giving hand signals from the stands. Ramos's decision was further vindicated when Mouratoglou admitted he was trying to coach Serena.

It just makes it so much easier when rules are firmly stuck to. Djokovic went over the 20 second threshold several times prior to closing out to win the US Open. I guess the umpire used discretion because matters were getting critical, but I don't think the umpire should have done that.

[bottle]

It's a shame that we have spent so much time talking about Serena.

I disagree. In most cases the people talking about Serena are not talking about Serena but rather their own hangups. And in a certain percentage of these persons, persons who can never even admit they have hangups, this has to be good. That is, if that old tennis tip from Socrates, "Know thyself," still carries water. Besides, Serena is colorful. Or should we prefer a 10-foot man made in the image of a bland God, somebody who only knows at most how to say two things: "Thanks to the ballboys and ballgirls," and, "I played very good today."

As far as Osaka goes, no, she wasn't denied her moment, received great press and PR which started with Serena. The people who still are saying she got short shrift are simply parroting what they heard during the incident, when people were afraid-- at that time-- she wouldn't receive sufficient attention. In fact, she received more than a woman's slam winner usually does thanks to Serena.

One of the funniest (and truest) details in the Simons piece is where he points out how the chronic Serena-haters have been knocking themselves out trying to convert Osaka into a blue-eyed blonde Swede. ("Momma says knock you out.")

[johnyandell]

I searched and found only a warning against Venus for coaching. No code violation and no others. Anyone find ones that I missed?

[don_budge]

http://www.insidetennis.com/2018/09/the-serena-fallout/Bill Simons is a friend and one of the most astute tennis writers there is. Here is his take on the Serena controversy. I happen to agree. But gentlemen this is a test. Those of you who agree or disagree will refrain from name calling accusations and the rest.

I searched and found only a warning against Venus for coaching. No code violation and no others. Anyone find ones that I missed?

Here's a bit of information regards the history of code violations and how they are disproportionately levelled against male players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx7FFC4VhNw

Another interesting video from a slightly different take than your good friend...Bill Simons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT7J4IErCx4

Interesting how this incident is furthering the "War on Men". The women are getting equal prize money in these events even though the product that they deliver is radically inferior to that of the men. If the women want to be equal then put them in the same draw as the men. Then they will by definition be treated "equally". It's a war on words. Twisted and convoluted to obfuscate the truth of the matter.

The truth is that women are disproportionately warned for on court coaching violations. In reality on the women's tour they can receive coaching on one changeover per set whereas the men are not allowed any. Discrimination? Probably not. Perhaps the men don't need coaching. Equal? Definitely not. Not by definition. So I am all for equal or I am for fairness. Which is it going to be? It is a war on words...and men.

This whole argument is actually an insult to women and mothers. Serena also injected the "Mother Card" into the argument. Race? Does not apply. She is playing in a stadium that was named after one of the greatest American sportsman of all time...the great Arthur Ashe. Her opponent? A women of Japanese and Haitian descent.

This spectacle could have easily been avoided if Serena had kept her cool instead of becoming hysterical over a coaching warning which is by all evidence not unusual on the women's tour. There is only one way out here and that is for Serena to completely accept responsibility for her total disrespect for not only her opponent but for the game in general. It was brought up in one discussion where somebody was posing the question if this might just be the cumulative effect of some decisions in Williams in general. They brought up the "Super Hero" suit she wore at the French Open. I wonder if she informed the French Open officials that she would be wearing a costume to her match instead of tennis clothes.

Big Time Wrestling...tennis is now not a reasonable facsimile of its former self.

I haven't passed or failed this test. This is not a test. It is a discussion and opposing opinions are allowed. Unless we have descended into some form of fascism and somebody neglected to inform me. Bottom line...this is about rules and behaviour. Not sexism, racism, motherism, misogynism or any other ism that one could dream up. Serena insults every women, African-American, LBGT and any other group she claims to be representing. This is nothing but a supreme hissy fit that we have never seen the likes of in the final of a Grand Slam event. Male or female.

As for Bill Simons and the article he wrote. I don't agree or disagree. I defend his right to express his view. He is entitled to his perspective and all variations of the truth. But he is not the end of this conversation. Not by a long shot.

[don_budge]

Margaret Court on Serena Williams...

Even Margaret Court has weighed in on the controversy. Everyone is entitled to have feelings...even opinions.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/tennis/margaret-court-backs-us-open-umpire-amid-serena-williams-cheating-drama/news-story/4bd46f2a375924170c6d1376d9c84fac

[bottle]

the product that they deliver is radically inferior to that of the men.

To apply some sort of criterion to test this wild and unsupported statement, consider how many times Serena came into net in her semifinal. Has any male baseliner in recent times showed comparable guts? Beyond that, it's no big deal to say that men's tennis is more boring than women's tennis right now.

Anyway, read UNCLE TOM'S CABIN, don_budge. Then read some of the 19th century takeoffs on that book, written by apologists for slavery.

If you were to do that, I can't predict that you would recognize yourself and have an "aha" moment.

But when you speak of "narratives," could it be that you are neglecting the broad narrative that has clearly emerged from 500 years of history?

You are correct that somebody is always trying to "change the narrative" but it isn't the person/persons you think.

Note: I know I'm supposed to ignore don_budge and his fellow conspirators, but there is no "ignore" device built into this website sufficient to the task. And I'm glad about that. But I read that somebody has me on his ignore list, and then I see that he is responding to some point I just made. Come on, guys, please, let's not pretend. Let's be honest and not speak in riddles.

[stotty]

Another perspective: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ms-stereotypes

I still haven't come across an article that satisfies both sides effectively. Articles tend to be either for or against Serena. One thing for sure is there is an almost violent prejudice against Serena. She is also a flawed individual (who isn't) kept cocooned by those immediately around her, which is not always a good thing. You would think one of these articles would tackle the psychology of Serena. She is trying desperately hard too take up every Me Too position can. Is this because she believes in it or is it that she sees it as a way to become more popular.

I always wanted to be popular at school but never was. Not that I was unpopular either. Some of us just aren't cut out to be all that popular with others. I am not sure what traits, if any, guarantee popularity or indeed make a person likeable. I am inclined to believe it is more to do with one's individual chemistry.

I spoke to a sports psychologist last week who said the mistake Serena made was one of language: You stole a point off me....you are a thief. What she might have said is I feel. Most players, the psychologist said, would have tackled the same issue from the perspective of.... I feel you have taken a point off me unreasonably, which changes to conversation somewhat.