Technical Flaws in Pro Two Handers: John Isner

[johnyandell]

Would love your thoughts on my latest article, "Technical Flaws in Pro Two Handers: John Isner"

[klacr]

I always knew Isner's two hander was bad. Could never tell in real time. Thank goodness for video slowed down enough to pick up this crucial detail. For Isner's sake, let's hope he can see this and make an adjustment. Gimelstob should make him watch the footage and read the article on a loop.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[johnyandell]

Ha! I am going to send the article to Justin, but I am not packing my bags.

[doctorhl]

John, l totally agree with your analysis of Isner. Since that grip change requires a major motor memory change in the middle of a career, any thoughts of specifically how, when, and the amount of bottom hand grip change? Since he already has the motor memory to shift his bottom hand to a slice position, that is a great start. The grip change will obviously take a little longer. Has anyone captured extremely zoomed-in, slow motion action of pros in the act of grip changing? I have witnessed the most talented players select 2 to 3 grips at the very last second on both forehands and backhands, but have not seen clear video capture. I once got bogged down in the dark ages with my non-racket hand manipulation of the racket throat when wood/composite rackets first became open throat and some were very wide.

[johnyandell]

Yeah those grip shifts are tough to film!

[arturohernandez]

Hmmm... He has a nice slice. HIs two hander is not so good. So let's fix his two hander. There is another solution but it would have had to happen much earlier in his life.

I often see very odd grips on junior players where I can tell that the shot will be limited in the long run.

I think John could change if he suddenly hit a clean shot. That feeling alone might make it so that he would switch.

Amazing to think that top players have flaws.

[bottle]

John, l totally agree with your analysis of Isner. Since that grip change requires a major motor memory change in the middle of a career, any thoughts of specifically how, when, and the amount of bottom hand grip change? Since he already has the motor memory to shift his bottom hand to a slice position, that is a great start. The grip change will obviously take a little longer. Has anyone captured extremely zoomed-in, slow motion action of pros in the act of grip changing? I have witnessed the most talented players select 2 to 3 grips at the very last second on both forehands and backhands, but have not seen clear video capture. I once got bogged down in the dark ages with my non-racket hand manipulation of the racket throat when wood/composite rackets first became open throat and some were very wide.

What's so hard about grip changes? You just have to know what the grip is that you want and then figure out the simplest way to get there.

That said, I don't think that most grip change instruction is user-friendly. "The vee goes here and that pad goes there and this pad goes here, etc., etc."

Better to hit with a multitude of natural grips and notice carefully the result. Then whittle down the choices to...THREE (3). Not that I am opinionated.

Strong eastern, composite, and service grip with thumb and forefinger out of the way. I think that thumb can be used as pointer on a dial. You learn the different thumb positions for your different grips. That short-circuits all the nonsense about "Take a magic marker and draw an x here and another one there, etc., etc."

More natural gripping of the racket and then learn by trial and error since no two hands are alike.

I've done a lot of experimentation with different strokes and have learned much about how difficult change is here, how easy there-- the challenge just is not always the same.

But as far as the physical act of finding and then remembering a desired grip-- I just can't believe it that tough.

I guess that our consciousness about how little shades of difference (in grip) make huge difference in production tends to make us neurotic about the actual grip changes themselves.

[ten1050]

Hello John,

Interesting article on Isner's backhand. Didn't Jimmy Conners have a weak backhand grip with his bottom hand? Also, I believe Conners kept his arms straight to strike the ball. Perhaps Isner's problem is that he stands too upright when he strikes his two hander. He might try to imitate the way Conners would lean his torso toward the ball and come up thus using his torso's momentum and back muscles to propel his arms and racket into the ball. Conners was a skinny guy, but he used the heaviest parts of the body, (the torso and legs), to power his two hander. In many ways, Conners was like a great middle weight fighter.

Sincerely,

Norman Ashbrooke

[johnyandell]

Norman,
Interesting point. I think Connors grip was a little stronger:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/jimmyconnor/jc_backhand/jc_bh_armaction/jc_bh_armaction.html?JCBHArmActionRear.mov

[toddbart]

Yes John uses a soft grip and almost exclusively uses the wrist to generate head speed. He rolls the top edge over, all similar to Gilles Simon's, only not as polished. I think the more important thing to ask though is why does he do this (wristy backhand)? Simon does it because it feeds into his "movement first" style of play. Isner does it for the same reason, to obtain easier movements. He would have to improve his footwork and strengthen his core to maintain the body position that would allow him to swing like Djokovic or even Nadal. Thats maybe even tougher than getting an experienced guy to change his grip. I always encourage kids 11-15 to perfect these things rather than worry about tourney results for this very reason. Could Isner change his backhand? Yes. Will he? Not likely anytime soon. Maybe in his waning years like other pros of late will he realize his time is running out and maybe an adjustment can help him stay near the top. But after a Wimby semi? No way. If he was smart though after this season he could re-invent it, but I doubt it will happen.

T.Bartolomeo, USPTA
San Jose, CA

[stotty]

....how many developmental coaches understand the relationships between grip, hitting arms and swing shape? You wonder if any other talented young players are being trained right now with fundamental flaws that will ultimately limit their success.

John, the reason I visit the website virtually everyday is to be enlightened by analysis I would never have figured out by myself. I wonder how many coaches would figure out Isner's problems for themselves? Very few I'd wager.

But by the way I don't even allow the girls I teach to use a grip like Isner's. So at least my players would never unwittingly fall into the Isner trap. I like the heel pad very much on bevel 1.

[johnyandell]

Thanks Stotty and totally agreed on the grip--so much better to change the bottom hand...

[jthb1021]

Great article indeed! It is crazy to imagine a man in the top 10 with a two hander that doesn't at least have a continental grip with his bottom hand! This is a conversation I'd expect to have with a ladies 3.0 player not a Wimbledon semi finalist.

[johnyandell]

Crazy yet true.

[tntenniswhiz]

So great to be back to this website and forum. I've stayed away from this great analysis for too long!! What I don't understand is how, when I, without considering myself to be a "high performance" coach, that I have naturally arrived at a much better grip configuration than what Isner has come up with. How, with the many "great" coaches that he's obviously been exposed to, allowed for this to continue? It's had to be obvious throughout his training and college career that his backhand wasn't up to the rest of his game, and was even a liability. It's beyond my comprehension really. Is there a culture out there that I'm just ignorant of?