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2018 Wimbledon...ATP 2000...London, Great Britain

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  • #31
    One set all. I have never seen Rafa play so well on grass as in that second set. His court positioning is great. He is trying to boss the rallies and he is forcing his sheer strength of personality on Djokovic. I love the use of the slice backhand from Nadal into Djokovic's backhand. The standard is really high. Let's hope both men keep it up.
    Stotty

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    • #32
      Brilliant third set...quite brilliant. Djokovic nicks it slightly against the run of play I felt. His serve kept him in it. The only shot still missing is that piercing backhand down the line.

      Nadal has the best backhand volley on the tour...and the best overhead ever.

      I did say this one would be a humdinger. What a shame the winner won't be playing Roger.
      Stotty

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      • #33
        Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
        Any particular reason Kyle?
        Because Isner is not likable. Not the smartest guy nor the most friendly. Does not have the game that gets a lot of admirers. Just a big serve. No aesthetics to his game.

        Kyle LaCroix USPTA
        Boca Raton

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        • #34
          Originally posted by stotty View Post
          Brilliant third set...quite brilliant. Djokovic nicks it slightly against the run of play I felt. His serve kept him in it. The only shot still missing is that piercing backhand down the line.

          Nadal has the best backhand volley on the tour...and the best overhead ever.

          I did say this one would be a humdinger. What a shame the winner won't be playing Roger.
          That was a fabulous 3rd set. Almost nothing between them, both doing what they do at their best. Nadal had something like 14 forehand winners, and Novak stayed posititve, just accepted it, and eventually prevailed in the tiebreak. It should be a super finish to the match. I noticed Nadal still stopped and signed a couple of autographs as he left the court just after losing the set to go down 2-1 in the match.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by stroke View Post

            That was a fabulous 3rd set. Almost nothing between them, both doing what they do at their best. Nadal had something like 14 forehand winners, and Novak stayed posititve, just accepted it, and eventually prevailed in the tiebreak. It should be a super finish to the match. I noticed Nadal still stopped and signed a couple of autographs as he left the court just after losing the set to go down 2-1 in the match.
            The most extraordinary thing about that third set is you felt Djokovic must cave in. Rafa was so relentless, so forceful, you felt Djokovic simply must buckle, yet he didn't. As baseline tennis goes, it is the best you could ever see.

            Today will be interesting to see if they can go in where they left off. Djokovic needs to keep serving well to get the occasional free point and to set himself up well when the rally starts. Rafa is going to come out like a bull. He actually lost that third set against the run of play.

            Great to see Rafa hugging the baseline more in the rallies than in previous years. He has to absolutely boss those rallies or Djokovic is going to out manoeuvre him.
            Last edited by stotty; 07-14-2018, 02:41 AM.
            Stotty

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            • #36
              Novak did fade out somewhat in the 2nd set and McEnroe pointed out the obvious which is there really if no window for taking a break vs Nadal, as he never does. Novak is going to have to be 100% in for every point.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by stroke View Post
                Novak did fade out somewhat in the 2nd set and McEnroe pointed out the obvious which is there really if no window for taking a break vs Nadal, as he never does. Novak is going to have to be 100% in for every point.
                Hah-hah!

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                • #38
                  I am hard pressed to come up with any singular performance that better demonstrates the potential of a human being in speed, strength, endurance, resilience, resourcefulness, will power, flexibility, reaction time, explosiveness, tactics, strategy and most of all, the demonstration of extremely high proficiency in a very difficult skill. And one more thing: good sportsmanship! They both know that they could not execute at that extremely high level without a similar performance from their opponent.

                  It makes me proud to call tennis my sport, even if I can't play it worth a damn anymore.

                  don

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                  • #39
                    Djokovic versus Nadal

                    Even as a spectator one finds oneself wilting under the strain. I told my son to really enjoy this stuff while it lasts because it is unlikely another trio of players will hit this height in tennis all at the same time. The younger generation just cannot match it and are never going to. They will just have to wait until Big 3 decide to quit. I find that mildly embarrassing for them.

                    The match was the best level of baseline tennis you could ever see. It could have gone either way. One bad bounce could even have decided it. Nadal just faltered on his serve in that last game. Until then he had used varied placement and kept Djokovic guessing just enough to stop him making more incisive returns. Usually Nadal is very predictable with his serving, but not today, today he served brilliantly.

                    The dynamic has changed a little between the two players. Let's not forget Djokovic had won 11 of their last 14 matches. But now Djokovic cannot control affairs quite how he used to. Nadal has more shots at his disposal than Djokovic. His drop shot is better, his volley and overhead are also better. Nadal's beefed up backhand has also made a significant difference to their match up. Djokovic still prevailed but only be a millimetre. It's now incredibly close. I just thought Djokovic served superbly throughout that fifth set and it ultimately made the difference.

                    Drop-shoting Djokovic is a good ploy. He doesn't move as well going forwards as laterally. He is also not as good as some when he gets there. He doesn't have great hands in that kind of situation like, say, Roger, who is a more balanced mover going forward and deadly when he gets there.

                    I am not sure how much Anderson can have left in his tank despite having a whole day off. He played the equivalent of 9 sets against Isner, which is a lot. He will need to serve well and play as well as he did against Roger to have any chance of winning, and even that might not be enough.
                    Last edited by stotty; 07-14-2018, 12:28 PM.
                    Stotty

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                    • #40
                      Nadal showed us how important it is to play inside the court. I think he just ran out of gas. But in tterms of attacking tennis he showed why the new generation will never be this good. They cannot finish at the net. Djokovic was lucky to survive. You could see him retreat to the safety of the baseline. He showed flashes of good net play. Nevertheless, Djokovic was my pick at the beginning of the week. His frustration and anger are back. I agree with Anderson as a 2nd time runner up.

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                      • #41
                        Oddsmakers have Novak at about 62% chance of winning match

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by stroke View Post
                          Oddsmakers have Novak at about 62% chance of winning match
                          I wonder how many people really care. The tournament was over for me for all intents and purpose when Roger went to sleep at the wheel against Anderson. I left Roger and the match to go and continue to resurrect my golf game and he was two sets up. It looked like a routine match for Federer as had the previous five matches he had played Kevin Anderson.

                          Anderson after his match with Isner was almost apologetic. He pondered why couldn't it have been a draw. Stupid Kevin. What babble. Tennis doesn't have draws. There are no ties. Yes it was a long match and not a very entertaining one at that. While Kevin may have been consumed by the effort, I doubt that many held their breath on the outcome.

                          The match that very well should have been the final in lieu of Federer leaving the stadium was of course Nadal and Djokovic. Once again there is proof that there is a God as Nadal went down in flames. It wasn't a particularly well played match. Sure there was a lot of baseline play. A lot of shots exchanged but that doesn't make it a great match on clay. The net play was noticeably absent once again as usual. The grass is burned and worn on and behind the baseline. The game of tennis has devolved. The big racquets cast an illusion. The play isn't really all that compelling or excellent for that matter. Djokovic looked like an amateur every single time he got near the net. He looked in a word...uncomfortable.

                          He had so many opportunities on poorly played drop shots by Fafa Nadal. But more than that...what about the bouncing of the ball by both players before each and every single serve. It's nauseating and I for one will never get used to it. I don't have to. There never was an illusion for me. I knew it was fake from the very beginning of the over-sized racquet era. Fake tennis. Just like fake news. So appropriate.

                          It's too bad really. We have slipped into the post Roger Federer era of tennis so gradually that nobody has noticed. One day he will officially retire and then he will be gone. What will be left? Answer...not much. Not much of an illusion even.

                          I don't have the stomach for the game. I cannot lie to myself as well as I might be able to lie to others. It's a sham. A disgrace. Fake tennis. There isn't really any excuse for any reason for that matter. Except human nature. Human nature being what it is. Glorifying his existence and his accomplishments. Everyone jumps on board the gravy train and who can blame them. Look at John McEnroe who used to be an icon for raw truth...at least his version. It sickens me now that he is a mouthpiece for this sham. Like all of the rest. Including Chrissie Evert. Those two darlings actually participated in the demise. For their credit they were the last of the holdouts. The last to cave to the big equipment. McEnroe in particular. He was at his zenith. But he switched...just in time. Just in time to crush Jimmy Connors in the finals of Wimbledon...what was it 1983?

                          So much water under the bridge. Nobody gives a damn. Alexander Zverev represents the second coming? I have maintained from the get go that this guy is no champion. If anything he is a work in process. But his game is glaringly incomplete. But the announcers in the booth are oohing and awing over every winner he hits. He sucks. In historical terms that is.

                          There isn't much to choose from anymore. You have Rafael Nadal who to me is about as fake as can be. You can take Novak Djokovic who is the most one dimensional number one player in the world ever. He is not even mediocre at the net...compared to McEnroe et al. He sucks. He really does. It was amusing to watch Nadal read his every move as he moved in on absolute sitters off of shitty drop shots from Nadal. With that way toward Western grip on the forehand he is not able to adapt to something more suitable for net play. Fore court play for that matter.

                          I love tennis for exercise and for recreation. It's funny that they cannot seem to spark any interest in the game. Minimal. Even with the gargantuan sized racquets. Making it easy enough for the most challenged physically to play. But it was a mistake to change it when it was at an all time high. Interest in the game was never so high as when Bjorn Borg and John McEnroe were duelling there Swan Song in the early 1980's. A better rivalry there never was. There were so many other players too. A full draw at Wimbledon and any other Slam event was full of players capable of upsetting any top player in any match. The depth of the game was fuelled by the collegiate game that was also thriving like a minor league farm system.

                          It looks to me as if Novak Djokovic own this match. It is his championship to lose. Anderson has won four games at this point in the match where Djokovic is serving for the second set. I think I will go out and play some golf. I already practiced for three plus hours this morning. IN the heat. The only person out on the range. In the practice bunker. On the putting green. Chipping...chipping...chipping away. The feel is returning. It is amazing how it works. The muscle memory is gone. Just faded memories of being an accomplished player. I started over. With worn out tools. I am satisfied with the results more and more. The rage for perfection still is in my soul. Wimbledon 2018...the first post Roger Federer Wimbledon and the dawn of the new age. The new era. It is an illusion. WE are talking about an illusion.
                          don_budge
                          Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Disappointing final, save for a bit of third set drama. Djokovic was technically brilliant from the back and snuffed out any hopes Anderson had with some excellent clutch serving. The final was yesterday really. The winner of that semi final was always going to lift the trophy.
                            Stotty

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                              The match that very well should have been the final in lieu of Federer leaving the stadium was of course Nadal and Djokovic. Once again there is proof that there is a God as Nadal went down in flames. It wasn't a particularly well played match. Sure there was a lot of baseline play. A lot of shots exchanged but that doesn't make it a great match on clay. The net play was noticeably absent once again as usual. The grass is burned and worn on and behind the baseline. The game of tennis has devolved. The big racquets cast an illusion. The play isn't really all that compelling or excellent for that matter. Djokovic looked like an amateur every single time he got near the net. He looked in a word...uncomfortable.

                              He had so many opportunities on poorly played drop shots by Fafa Nadal. But more than that...what about the bouncing of the ball by both players before each and every single serve. It's nauseating and I for one will never get used to it. I don't have to. There never was an illusion for me. I knew it was fake from the very beginning of the over-sized racquet era. Fake tennis. Just like fake news. So appropriate.

                              It's too bad really. We have slipped into the post Roger Federer era of tennis so gradually that nobody has noticed. One day he will officially retire and then he will be gone. What will be left? Answer...not much. Not much of an illusion even.

                              So much water under the bridge. Nobody gives a damn. Alexander Zverev represents the second coming? I have maintained from the get go that this guy is no champion. If anything he is a work in process. But his game is glaringly incomplete. But the announcers in the booth are oohing and awing over every winner he hits. He sucks. In historical terms that is.

                              There isn't much to choose from anymore. You have Rafael Nadal who to me is about as fake as can be. You can take Novak Djokovic who is the most one dimensional number one player in the world ever. He is not even mediocre at the net...compared to McEnroe et al. He sucks. He really does. It was amusing to watch Nadal read his every move as he moved in on absolute sitters off of shitty drop shots from Nadal. With that way toward Western grip on the forehand he is not able to adapt to something more suitable for net play. Fore court play for that matter.

                              It looks to me as if Novak Djokovic own this match. It is his championship to lose. Anderson has won four games at this point in the match where Djokovic is serving for the second set. I think I will go out and play some golf. I already practiced for three plus hours this morning. IN the heat. The only person out on the range. In the practice bunker. On the putting green. Chipping...chipping...chipping away. The feel is returning. It is amazing how it works. The muscle memory is gone. Just faded memories of being an accomplished player. I started over. With worn out tools. I am satisfied with the results more and more. The rage for perfection still is in my soul. Wimbledon 2018...the first post Roger Federer Wimbledon and the dawn of the new age. The new era. It is an illusion. WE are talking about an illusion.
                              We could beat a dead horse forever. I agree with don_budge that players are not fully developing their games.

                              But things change. And I still love watching tennis even though I find it boring at times.

                              My thinking is that height is very deceptive. It is no secret that players are getting taller and that conditions favor taller players.

                              There is no way that a semifinal between two giants would have been possible at Wimbledon twenty years ago. With the rackets and the serve and volley play they would have never made it out of the first round. It would have been like watching a Giraffe looking down at piranhas bleeding it to death in a puddle of water at their ankles.

                              But now height is entering into the equation more and more. Especially, in the juniors. It's not my idea. You can read an article on this.

                              https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...is-future.html

                              Hingis thinks that the problem is that smaller players do not hang around because they are either giving up on themselves or their coaches give up on them.

                              So now the players that do excel in the juniors are taller. Many of them are A LOT taller. Height becomes the norm but it also creates rising stars that will not be able to reach the pinnacle of the sport.

                              I still think that 6 foot or just above is ideal for men and 5'9" or just above is ideal for women.

                              What we have lost is any 5'10 top male players and have almost lost any top women that are 5'6" and with that we have lost the other elements of the game.

                              At those heights we had lots of play inside the court because it was much easier for these players to maneuver themselves.

                              Juniors have very few models like this for players to emulate.

                              And if a junior is short he or she will have a much harder time getting through.

                              Look at Simona Halep. They are highlights but look at how easily she runs forward.



                              Even Nishikori tries to stay back. But if you watch carefully he can handle balls inside the court much more easily.



                              You rarely seem them slipping at Wimbledon. When they do come in they can handle volleys and play inside the court very well.

                              Halep likes the swinging volley but still at least it is inside the court.

                              Djokovic plays more like a tall player. And now everyone wants to emulate him.

                              Tennis has become an exclusively taller player sport. And inevitably we have lost play inside the court.

                              Not the only cause but perhaps one of them.

                              Just my 2 cents coming from an under 6 foot tall rec player.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by arturohernandez View Post
                                We could beat a dead horse forever.
                                What exactly do you mean by this comment?

                                don_budge
                                Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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