Muscle memory

[ferli001]

Phil, I just watched it, sitting at a coffee shop and OMG this will be so helpful! It is exactly how I start off the swing -- can't wait to try it out. Is it helping you? THANKS

[gzhpcu]

Will know Thursday... let`s keep other each informed..

[bottle]

Phil, I just watched it, sitting at a coffee shop and OMG this will be so helpful! It is exactly how I start off the swing -- can't wait to try it out. Is it helping you? THANKS

Man, I can't wait to try this as well.

[gzhpcu]

Thing is to keep loose on the backswing. Not as easy at it sounds...

[gzhpcu]

This makes sense... will try...

[don_budge]

Muscle Memory...

ferli101...a couple of posts from the past. The first one represents the "rollercoaster track" that Pete Sampras gets his racquet moving along.


The Rollercoaster...and the serve

sampras motion

I love this yellow line that depicts the trail left by the Pete Sampras service motion. Thanks for this GeoffWilliams.

When talking about rhythm or tempo please take a look at this yellow streak and imagine that it is the track of a rollercoaster. Initially the rollercoaster car starts from a still position and falls down the track with the initial gravitational pull until it starts to ascend up the first hill. Since the car only has so much inertia from the initial descent it will barely make it up to the top of the hill.

Once the car reaches the top of the hill it will come to almost a momentary pause before it falls off the edge down the hill where it comes to a loop in the track. Going into this loop the car has picked up its maximum speed and comes out of the loop as rocket boosters activate to thrust it upwards as if it were slung out of a cannon...attaining maximum speed slightly after impact of the ball.

The backswing and the racquet drop are purely gravity based and the whole time the body is aligning itself in order to coil so as to apply the boosters of the thrusting legs, turning torso and throwing motion of the arm.

Interesting visual! Now we can see this kind of tempo in the swing of mlogarzo's pupil...Zoe. The keys were to get her car (racquet head) lined up correctly initially and then make the free fall drop of the hands and racquet. She had only to maintain her tempo going up the hill to the point where she was on-line to let the car fall behind her. Once there it is a matter of letting everything go sequentially without interfering with the natural impetus of things.









The Three Rules for Injury Free Serving...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion

This is honestly one of my favorite posts of all time. I had a lot of fun trying to express this idea. The Gravitational Pull on the Racquet Head. It's a car on a RollerCoaster ride that stays on track.

Love Rollercoaster...The Ohio Players 1975

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBkVV9xxCHE

The Roller Coaster of Love...Part 1

Then I wrote this in April for Phil's "frustrating" thread...I deleted this one as well. Stupid me, I didn't realize that this was somehow related to Rod Cross's physics lesson on...what is it he is talking about anyways? I remember talking to my college roommate and doubles partner and backcourt mate on the basketball court, many years ago, 1076 I believe it was...he was a Chemical Engineering major, I said to him..."you know Jim, a tennis match is really one big physics problem and equation, I wonder if you could take an entire tennis match and express it as an equation in terms of force, vectors, with specific quantification." He looked up at me from his studies and said, "That's an interesting thought." I never did follow up on my thought. He went on studying and I went out to practice.


Roller Coaster of Love...remember that tune?


Phil...I have been studying your video over the last couple of weeks and gleaned everything I can from it. The one view has its limitations and the still sequence of your serve adds some insight as well. The only sure way to do this thing is in person...care to fly over to Sweden for a couple of lessons. Just kidding.


The service motion is a bit complex and it involves quite a bit of motion from all of the different parts of the body...so we try to simplify things by creating a model we can relate it to in simple terms. The model that I use is the “berg och dallbana” which translates literally into English from Swedish as the “mountain and valley course”...but it means “roller coaster”. A roller coaster is an amusement park ride that is perfectly designed using the law of gravity. The design is so perfect that the ride feels that it is wildly out of control and traveling at incredible speed...but is so amazingly in control that the owners of such rides are betting everything they have that the ride will not spin out of control and kill a bunch of innocent people on a Saturday afternoon. This is the safe and secure principle we shall attempt to modify your backswing to in order to get you going forward into the “hit” with perfect and effortless energy. We are going to be using gravity as our main source of energy...to create a perfect, yet simple motion...a roller coaster of a serve.


Here’s the thing, Phil...about the set up and backswing. This is a real challenge without having you in front of me to study for a while. To set you up to begin your motion I would like you to create a line directly at your target with the toes of your two feet which are approximately shoulder width apart. Imagine this line going forwards towards your target and all the way back of you to the fence. This line will serve as our “track” for the backswing. I would like to see you bent slightly at the waist so that your arm can “swing” from your shoulder without your body getting in the way. Finally, I would like you to line your racquet up to your target as well, on the same line as the line that your feet created. Point your racquet at the target and hold it about waist high supported by your left hand. Weight distributed from between 60/40 to 70/30 from the front foot to the back. Great...now we have you lined up, and taking aim.

Here we go...hold on to your hat! One thing that we must clarify before we go into any kind of explanation about the motion is the pressure of your grip. Sam Snead referred to the grip on his golf club as holding it with only so much pressure as you would hold a live bird. We only hold on with our hand tight enough to not let go of the racquet. We maintain only enough pressure in the entire arm, forearm and wrist to swing the arm and racquet back into position in one piece without disturbing the exact position that it is in at the setup position. We must eliminate all sources of tension and resistance when we are attempting to use pure gravity to dictate our motion. From this relaxed and confident position at setup we need only to release the racquet with our left hand that is supporting it, and allow the weight of the racquet head to merely fall upon the line of the track all the way back to the fence until it reaches a position at the top of the hill. From the starting position, the roller coaster car begins its decent down the first hill until it reaches the bottom where it will begin its assent slowly up the second hill all the way to the top. Remember the track is along the line that we created with our feet towards our target and it extends all the way back. Keep the racquet on this track. By allowing gravity to dictate the direction and speed of our backswing we will create the position back in our swing where the laws of gravity make the most sense and the least number of things can go wrong. In fact nothing can go wrong...just like the roller coaster. By dropping the racquet head and allowing the weight of it to travel smoothly in front of you and only using the energy of your weight transferring to the back foot by slowly turning your shoulders and allowing your arm to freely swing back into position, we create a position where the racquet will naturally drop behind us at free fall speed into what you are referring to the “pro drop” position.

Now this is where things get a bit interesting...and exciting. Thinking about this point of the motion where the racquet makes a loop starting at free fall speed, behind our backs and how it relates to a roller coaster, we can imagine where the cars of the ride go into a loop and the riders are actually upside down on the track with only gravity to keep them glued to the track. This is where the riders of the roller coaster are screaming at the top of their lungs and their faces are contorted with the g-force that is plastering the tissue of their faces to their skulls. It’s in the loop, baby! This is where the drive of the legs, the turning back of the shoulders and the thrusting or throwing motion of the racquet combine to exponentially create an incredible amount of speed with very little effort. You can imagine that the line a piece of pencil would draw if it was attached to the tip of the racquet...this is your track for the roller coaster of your serve.

The backswing is where I observe the source of your issues. It looks to me that if we can get you into position you can make the move forward if you can maintain a loose grip on the racquet and the relaxation in your arm to create a whip like sensation. (insert post #32 at this point for the action of the wrist)


Just one more thing...it looks to me in frame #3 you have tossed the ball right out of the picture and in frame #4 it is returning to earth. I think your toss is a bit high...which would lead us to the next lesson, how and where to toss the ball.


A description of the Pancho Gonzales serve…

The Gonzales service is a natural action that epitomizes grace, power, control and placement. The top players sigh when they see the smooth, easy action. There is no trace of a hitch and no unnecessary movements. I have never seen a serve so beautifully executed. The toss is no higher than it has to be and it is timed so that he is fully stretched when he hits it. The backswing is continuous and the motion of the backswing blends into the hit and continues into the follow-through without a pause..

Like you...I am a huge admirer of the Gonzales serve...and he obviously knew his "metaphysics".

[gzhpcu]

Thanks don_budge. . Keeping loose and setting up the swing correctly is the key. I do not have Sampra’s talent. He apparently never wanted to verbalize his swing. He just did it naturally.

[ferli001]

I

[ferli001]

sorry, my computer was glitchy and posted an empty message. Anyway, I just wanted to say that yesterday I experienced on a few serves the feeling of gravity on my racket drop and it was exhilarating --the roller coaster is right on as an image! I think the "space in between" a "lull" or more prosaically timing helped as well to get that feel. So, I am making tiny feeling steps forward and when I checked with the video I was actually mildly pleased and a bit more optimistic. The racket seemed a bit more to my right side and not across my back. I think I overrotate however and I am not sure how that cuts short my racket drop but I think it might. Any thoughts about the timing of the rotation hips/shoulder -racket drop timing? thank you for all these posts --learning a lot.
How did your practice go, Phil?

[don_budge]

Food for Thought for ferli001, gzhpcu

ferli001...you notice that the golf references often appear in my writing. I often say the tennis is...golf on the run.

The Three Rules for Injury Free Serving...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion

don_budge - You're expertise in a wide variety of sports would help here - especially the fact you know baseball well.

“Serve Smart Guidelines” and “Hitting Reps.”

NOTHING IN TENNIS.

I am basically right now listening to what Major League (MLB) baseball coaches are telling me, as no one in tennis has spent the millions of dollars to research this area out like baseball.

Thoughts?

I'd love to hear ideas from 10splayer, klacr, John, Geoff, Bottle, Don, tennis_chiro and others on this important topic.

I think that your concern for preventative thinking regarding injuries is a multi faceted philosophy. While thinking of reducing the risk of injury, at the same time you can eliminate faulty movement from the swing. The perfect service motion is attainable by all with the proper foundation. It's a process and it isn't one that occurs miraculously. What normally occurs is that the student is left to his own devices and comes up with something "homemade". Such was the case with gzhpcu. The thoughtful fellow residing in luxury in Switzerland.

I offered the following "fix" to Phil's maladies in his motion. Some food for thought. There is some interesting comparisons to be made between the service motion and the golf swing. One of the huge factors in both swings is the idea of tempo. Your discussion revolving around Kyle's serve is an interesting one and the revelation that your daughter is using something of a "Roscoe Tanner" motion is interesting as well. I wouldn't recommend it myself...although in the end most anything can work nowadays. Nobody seems to be motoring to the net. Nobody seems to be in any hurry to hit the ball in the air...but if they were I would think carefully about how I would design a motion engineered to go forwards. Instead of retreating. But anyways...it's all just food for thought. Phil-osophizing...if you will.

All we need to do is change the frustrating...to fascinating...Part 2

And this was the follow up...I think I am still talking about physics here.

All we need to do is change the frustrating...to fascinating

I believe that the keys to your service issues can be found in frame #1, frame #2 and frame #3. This setup position in frame #1 will certainly get you off to a poor start in your swing and if you start the swing poorly what are the chances of you finishing it well? In frame #2 you can see how quickly you have jerked your racquet back into position and since you were so quick you have prematurely quit swinging backwards...you have not completed your backswing. The problem is now in full view in frame #3 as here you are waiting in this position instead of arriving at the point where the roller coaster car (your racquet's head) has reached the top of the mountain and is ready to fall behind your back at free fall speed...to initiate the loop in your swing behind you. It’s impossible to arrive at the “pro drop” properly unless you allow your racquet to fall, without hurrying things. It looks like you have tied yourself up and are preparing a rather wild and hurried swing, which is more like a hit than a swing at this point, at the ball...btw, where is the ball?

In frames #4 and beyond...you demonstrate that you have practiced a lot or have been playing a long time because you are making quite a nice swing at the ball and appear to be in pretty good control and in balance. The key word here is “appear” because the problem will magnify itself when you are nervous, when it is windy, when the sun is in your eyes or any other little thing that distracts you. You probably do not have a great deal of versatility in your serve because all of your concentration is focused on getting the service in play. Even some pretty Swiss lady who happens to be watching you play may get you just a little too excited to hold your rhythm. If I know that some pretty woman is watching me serve, I slow my backswing even more...give her the full show, you see. My serve tends to get even better under pressure...because of the slower backswing.

But if you turn over the controls of your service to gravity in terms of the speed and the track of your backswing...you can hold the rhythm under any conditions...even when the nerves are in play, like for instance, when you are serving out the set. Ever notice how difficult that tends to become? Trying to get the horse in the barn...you have got to take your time and have an enormous amount of patience and control. You cannot trust your emotions, your wrist or anything for that matter, the only thing that you can truly trust is the knowledge and the confidence that nothing can go wrong...because you have a perfect swing and beautiful rhythm, because your mechanics are based solely on the law of gravity. If you miss the first serve you can swing even harder with more spin at the second because you know...what are the chances of missing two in a row? Practically zero. Some days second serves can turn into a real adventure can't they? And why? It's because of the doubts...that faulty rhythm and mechanics can produce.

I watched The Masters golf tournament this weekend...I think I enjoy watching golf more on TV than tennis, I don’t know why I tend to find tennis boring to watch...maybe it is the lack of style nowadays. Perhaps it's the beautiful rhythm of the swings that holds my attention...they mesmerize me. But one thing about the golfers...every single one of them is virtually identical in their backswings. Why is that? That is because the ball is teed up or lying still and they have the time to make the perfect backswing. You can see that none of them are in any particular hurry to finish their backswing because they are gathering all of the resources of power and control that they possess to use the force of gravity together with the motion of their arms and body to control the club head. They get themselves into perfect position at the top of their swing and without hurrying things they allow gravity to initiate their downwards motion to deliver such a sweet and crisp contact at the bottom of their swing on the ball.

Since we are serving...it is the only time in tennis that we have total control of the ball, we can tee it up with our toss, maybe we should learn a bit from the golfers and take our time in the backswing so that we can get ourselves (mind, body and soul) under control to make the most powerful, efficient, controlled yet effortless swing that we can. Sort of like Richard Gonzales...but within our limitations, Phil. Just like the golfer we are trying to gather everything in our power to make the ultimate contact with the racquet head on and through the ball...but instead of the swing climaxing at the bottom of the swing as a golfer does, the serve is climaxing at the top of our swing. Isn't that rather interesting?

I can see that you have plenty of ability and that you are in really good condition...in three or four hours I believe I could get all of your resources together, in harmony with the universe, to make a gravity based swing at the ball. Depending upon your flexibility...to change.

And to make a long story short...incorporate Don's figure 8´s. I remember doing those exercises religiously before practicing my serve back in the old days.

A description of the Pancho Gonzales serve…

The Gonzales service is a natural action that epitomizes grace, power, control and placement. The top players sigh when they see the smooth, easy action. There is no trace of a hitch and no unnecessary movements. I have never seen a serve so beautifully executed. The toss is no higher than it has to be and it is timed so that he is fully stretched when he hits it. The backswing is continuous and the motion of the backswing blends into the hit and continues into the follow-through without a pause..

Like you...I am a huge admirer of the Gonzales serve...and he obviously knew his "metaphysics".

Perhaps the singular most impressive aspect of the Richard Gonzalez service motion is the aspect of tempo. From the description the author attributes "grace, power, control and placement" to the motion. You no doubt have read my axiom about power and control many times. The question being..."What is Power?". The answer is..."a combination of speed, spin and placement". A slow methodical tempo offers the method from which each of the elements of control can be maximized. A quicker tempo like klacr's or Roscoe Tanners may somehow cast the illusion of power...as in speed...the fact is that serving is more than power. It is "pitching" to a receiver and this is much more sublime than merely trying to overpower your opponent. You must take into consideration things like which delivery or motion offers the most in terms of variety of spin and even deception.

[gzhpcu]

Fer1001, I think I am making progress also. However, will have to video it. Often you feel you have changed something, then you video it and see that little has changed. I worked on keeping loose, my head up on and after impact and keeping my tossing arm up longer and pointing towards the sky. The good sign is that my serve had more power. Good luck to you.

[gzhpcu]

Don_budge. Thanks again. We are all different. i am more of a visual type than a verbal type. Also I attempt to replicate feelings when working on my swing. Even though I am still reading books on theoretical physics and superstring theory, when it comes to sports I prefer visual analysis like in John’s Visual tennis book.

[don_budge]

Don_budge. Thanks again. We are all different. i am more of a visual type than a verbal type. Also I attempt to replicate feelings when working on my swing. Even though I am still reading books on theoretical physics and superstring theory, when it comes to sports I prefer visual analysis like in John’s Visual tennis book.

Yes...I know how different people are and I also know that you are "visual". I included your name because you have started this fine thread and my original posts were directed to you because of some video you posted.

But ferli101 is different also. I "feel" that he can connect with what I have described. Golfers in general make very good tennis students as they are used to very specific technique parameters. But at the same time the golfer is able to process all sorts of input in order to create "feel". It helps to be visual but that is only a part of it. In the end it is always "feel" for me. I never video my students and I more or less force them into digging deep in order to create this feeling out process.

I am really curious how ferli101 responds to my posts going forwards.

[ferli001]

Hi Phil, as you can see I am very new to this site but with all the discussion here about your serve, I checked out your video and think that so many would be happy to have your motion and yet I fully understand the desire to get it right or get it to the best of one's abilities. A true "growth" mindset! this is when tennis (or golf) becomes something more than just a game --its an attitude, a way of thinking about life. At least, it is for me.
For sure: the video is the analyst in the relationship between one's serve, one's desire, and stubborn old muscle memory. But darn it, we will get there!
cheers

[ferli001]

Hi don_budge, I am very much enjoying your posts and your analogies to golf and the feel of the swing resonate with me. I find it fascinating how the muscle memory works and how even now I can tee up a golf ball and all my pre-swing routines just kick in like it was yesterday and I can drive the ball with such ease and power --- that is for a few times and then the reality of not having played in decades kicks and the rust etc. Your posts are inspiring me to draw upon how I felt the golf swing and its tempo and the confidence I had in letting the momentum build. I have tended to compartmentalize the two sports rather than move between them --partly because they are so different and yet so alike. hey, you got me thinking. Oh and by the way, I chose my ferli001 name not thinking about posting or gender. I am "she" Cheers