Serving Mystery: Hit Up Or Hit Down?

[johnyandell]

So interesting because Nadal's contact is back partially over his head and his arm tilt is much less.

[stotty]

Think it's similar:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...de1_250fps.mp4

You're right.

With Nadal it's the same. You can use the video clip border to reference the ball trajectory in this clip. The ball travels I think along for short spell then descends.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...de1_500fps.mp4

[johnyandell]

Think it's similar:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Serve/2nd_Serve&stroke=RF_2ndS_Deuce_Side1_250fps.mp4

[stotty]

Stotty,
Yep. It's the ball position that adds that little downward tilt of the arm as I wrote.

Yes I get that.

How does this work with heavily kicked second serves? I assume the downward tilt is perhaps less but is there any evidence the ball leaves the racket traveling slightly upwards for a millisecond or is it a straight descent?

[johnyandell]

Stotty,
Yep. It's the ball position that adds that little downward tilt of the arm as I wrote.

Doc,
Yep also!

[doctorhl]

John, you nailed it. The upward and outward motion is the ticket even though the racket is slightly down at contact. I tell students to "hit up to hit down", even though that seems counterintuitive to them. . A serve and volley player might have a tendency to think "down" in their effort to contact the ball further in the court.

[stotty]

With some students it's a real eureka moment when they first learn to hit up on the ball. They get that bit more power and it feels better.

I am not sure about the up or downward thing. If you choose to stay back on serve, as most do, even Roger, then hitting up on the ball seems greater and more easy to achieve. Would a serve volleyer 'hit up' as much as a baseliner?

And what about Dolgopolov whose seems still to be rising when he contacts the ball? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwvDvy-8LA

I went out on court today and made an effort to focus on hitting up on the ball and then compared it to hitting my more normal serves. Hitting up, whether it's real or not, definitely creates more juice. It's undeniable, at least with my motion it is.

[johnyandell]

Would love to get your thoughts on "Serving Mystery: Hit Up Or Hit Down?"