Serving Mystery: Hit Up Or Hit Down?

[johnyandell]

Would love to get your thoughts on "Serving Mystery: Hit Up Or Hit Down?"

[stotty]

With some students it's a real eureka moment when they first learn to hit up on the ball. They get that bit more power and it feels better.

I am not sure about the up or downward thing. If you choose to stay back on serve, as most do, even Roger, then hitting up on the ball seems greater and more easy to achieve. Would a serve volleyer 'hit up' as much as a baseliner?

And what about Dolgopolov whose seems still to be rising when he contacts the ball? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlwvDvy-8LA

I went out on court today and made an effort to focus on hitting up on the ball and then compared it to hitting my more normal serves. Hitting up, whether it's real or not, definitely creates more juice. It's undeniable, at least with my motion it is.

[doctorhl]

John, you nailed it. The upward and outward motion is the ticket even though the racket is slightly down at contact. I tell students to "hit up to hit down", even though that seems counterintuitive to them. . A serve and volley player might have a tendency to think "down" in their effort to contact the ball further in the court.

[johnyandell]

Stotty,
Yep. It's the ball position that adds that little downward tilt of the arm as I wrote.

Doc,
Yep also!

[stotty]

Stotty,
Yep. It's the ball position that adds that little downward tilt of the arm as I wrote.

Yes I get that.

How does this work with heavily kicked second serves? I assume the downward tilt is perhaps less but is there any evidence the ball leaves the racket traveling slightly upwards for a millisecond or is it a straight descent?

[johnyandell]

Think it's similar:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Serve/2nd_Serve&stroke=RF_2ndS_Deuce_Side1_250fps.mp4

[stotty]

Think it's similar:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...de1_250fps.mp4

You're right.

With Nadal it's the same. You can use the video clip border to reference the ball trajectory in this clip. The ball travels I think along for short spell then descends.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...de1_500fps.mp4

[johnyandell]

So interesting because Nadal's contact is back partially over his head and his arm tilt is much less.

[stotty]

So interesting because Nadal's contact is back partially over his head and his arm tilt is much less.

Yep...that's why dug out the clip. I was convinced the ball might travel slightly up as consequence of less tilt. I was wrong. When you consider the mechanics of the kick serve, with the racket strings brushing up the ball, albeit left to right, it seems logical the ball would go up a fraction.

[aanthony]

What about the string depression at contact? a closer look might reveal less downward angle at contact. John Isner is almost 7 feet tall. My understanding of the serve says that he can hit down from the baseline. what about Lauren Davis?

[johnyandell]

We can see the string depression and that isn't a factor. You can see the ball clearly come off the strings with a slight downward angle. Isner has more downward tilt for sure. Lauren? Never filmed her. But it's a good question. One key to the amount of downward angle is the ball position--the more in front, the more angle. Look at the clip of Nadal in this thread.

[customsports]

Thank you John for an informed discussion presenting the "both up and down" points of view supported by clips of the best professionals. Serving is by far the most important stroke in tennis and probably the least understood. I have had this debate going with several club players for years now, and your article supports our understanding and methods for teaching the mechanics of serving. We teach that a good serve requires 80% upward and 20% forward energy, with the racket face at a slight tilt at impact, similar to the racket face tilt and upward motion of topspin ground strokes. By the way, great timing to this topic after watching John Isner consistently pound 135 mph- plus serves to clinch the Miami Open.

[johnyandell]

Thanks!

[daveporter]

John,



Very good article on the serve. It is much like the old adage "watch the ball hit the strings" on ground strokes. The eye is incapable of actually seeing the moment of contact with the ball but the use of the phrase is very appropriate for keeping the direction of visual attention on the ball as it is tracked prior to contact. Similarly, the upward and/or outward motion of the racquet is significant in preparation for variety of spins, height of contact, even direction on the serve.



You can actually hit the ball over the net and into the court (service motion) by holding the racquet with just the middle finger and the thumb and swinging the racquet up while leaving your wrist above your head. This demonstrates the racquet head only going up and down with no forward (or negligibly forward) motion. Of course, this is ONLY to emphasize the importance of the upward motion in preparation for the actual serve, which as you shared, is in fact, forward/outward in nature.



I enjoy your work. Keep it up.



Dave Porter

[johnyandell]

Thanks Dave. For those who don't know him Dave is an august figure and past president of the USPTA.